To be scared by our apathy?

[Currywurstmitpommes]

Threads on here discussing how best to stockpile food, the government telling us not to panic but at the same time making the kind of plans we shouldn’t see in peace time.

All of this is self inflicted. Largely down to our politicians worrying more about their parties than the rest of us. Austerity making us feel poorer and running down our services. Now the scary reality of next March is getting closer by the minute.

Countries have managed to royally fuck themselves before up by blindly believing the government will sort it out before. Ask yourself do you really believe that all those 650 MPs in parliament are either competent or working in your best interests?

but... its not too late

Many believe it’s a done deal with no turning back. But it can be stopped. Here’s the proof.

Speaking on the BBC Radio Today programme this morning, French Europe Minister Nathalie Loiseau confirmed that the door “remains open" to the UK, and that we could stay in the EU “on the same terms”.

Commenting, Lord (John) Kerr, the architect of Article 50 and a leading supporter of the People’s Vote campaign, said:
“It’s up to us. There would be no price – political or financial – to pay if we took back the Article 50 letter, as the French Europe Minister today confirmed we can.
“The people should have the right to choose. They deserve their vote, once the present negotiation with the EU ends.”

We all need to making our thoughts and voices heard on this. Please dont’t leave it to others - its all our futures and those of our kids.

So write to your MP, sign the facebook petition and take back control!

huge apologies. It's 'cos I'm a thick leaver. OK, how do you plan to "not accept" what is happening? Better?

Not sure why you're taking so much issue with my post. It's increasingly clear that the Brexit vote has screwed up the country for our children and future grandchildren. Anyone who STILL thinks otherwise is of course entitled to that opinion.

I'm accountable to them. In my view, they will be disgusted with our generation and this vote, and what has been taken from them. I need them to know that I did everything I could to make their future as bright as possible.

If you want to know 'precisely' what I'm doing and where I'm directing my efforts, then...why? The OP covers the basics of what people can do.

When basic employment rights are inevitably stripped, and our generation and our children have appalling - or non-existent - protection at work - that's when it will hit home.

someone who doesn't like Brexit has ignored you for decades

Wow the assumption behind this says a lot about you. I am not poor. I am not talking about me.

You campaign because you are the one telling people to support suck. Tell them you can offer something else. Or why should they listen to you? You are the one wanting things to change. That is why you should campaign. That is how it works. Duh.

So you're happy that everything is going to get worse for the poor that you profess to care about.

Nope, still not getting any logic from that...

Also, you want me to campaign for your issue, but you CBA to do it yourself. Weird.

I'm campaigning to remain because it will be better for everyone in this country, bar a few disaster capitalists like Grease-Smug. I didn't realise I had to narrow it down and only campaign for "the poor" however you personally want to define them...

They will shift some jobs to Germany as the work certifying the engines which is done now in the UK will be done in Germany.

No, again, RR have said themselves that depending on the outcome of Brexit they may have to create the design compliance office in Germany.

This may or may not result in job losses.

They themselves it would not, but I guess you know better...

But you ignore the fact that RR is currently cutting 4000+ jobs

And you are ignoring a lot of other factors if you think that is because of brexit, you are also ignoring the job losses RR made within the EU and further afield, just one that shows how much of a grasp of the situation you seem to think you have.

So @Justanotherlurker let's just assume for a moment you're right and RR is not affected by Brexit. I'm not saying I agree with that but let's hypothesise.

Does this make Brexit a success when swathes of British industry are saying they are relocating and in some cases already have?

sacre no, it doesn't mean Brexit will be a success. It means someone posted an example of a company relocating leading to job losses in the UK when no such thing has been said by the company itself.
How many businesses have actually left UK so far. As in left, not rumours, not debating what to do come March, but left

oh, and left due to Brexit, not other reasons ( of which there are lots)

If you think middle class lefty remainers are unsympathetic towards the left-behind, why not have a peek at some FB ‘leave’ groups. Quite an eye opener Lots of talk of ‘benefit scroungers’ and ‘cheats’. I agree that the conversation should be had - TM tried (badly) to address it with her focus on the just about managing. Unfortunately the mechanics and politics of Brexit are consuming so much energy that other initiatives are taking a back seat. Perhaps dealing with Brexit rather than the causes of the vote is putting the cart before the horse but, having rashly triggered Article 50, the clock is ticking and the practicalities need to be dealt with urgently.

Anecdotally, the people I know who voted leave are comfortably off nationalistic types. I am not left wing and very few of my friends are. Many of us volunteer at eg, food banks, homeless centres - we’re not the enemy, I think we’re pretty decent, considerate and thoughtful people.

@vandrew4

We haven't left yet. So you need to include planned moves.

Lloyd's of London (Brussels?)
All the banks have moved staff
Euro clearing activities
EBA
EMA
Airbus
Entire car industry and components
Much Japanese industry
Pfizer
EasyJet (set up a sub in the EU27
Lloyd's Bank set up 3 subsidiaries
JLR
AIG

But that's probably not enough for you. Brexit will be a success and we are all not being patriotic enough.

"The world’s biggest specialist insurance market announced it would be seeking a new Brussels-based subsidiary the day after the UK prime minister Theresa May invoked Article 50, the official EU exit clause.

The company’s chief executive, Inga Beale, said:

“Brussels met the critical elements of providing a robust regulatory framework in a central European location, and will enable Lloyd’s to continue to provide specialist underwriting expertise to our customers.”

However, she maintained that the new office would be an additional base and less than 100 London jobs would be affected"

and not actually left. Planned moves have absoloutely no guarantee of actual moves

Tbh CardinalSin you are a perfect example of the problem I am talking about. My argument was not so much for Leave or Remain but I plea to hear and respond to the very clear message coming from low income communities. People like you still aren't listening to that but still expect people in low income communities to be won over to your views. Good luck with that.

I wonder how many companies are quietly leaning on government/ministers for special favours to encourage them to stay ?

You know that minimum wage malarkey ? Maybe we wouldn't have to move to the EU if it were dropped in the UK ?

Maybe if we could avoid hiring so many women, we could stay in the UK ?

and so on.

Because it's exactly what I would be doing. And I'm a Remainer.

pfizer

US drugs giant Pfizer will shut two of its three manufacturing plants in the UK in the next four years, putting 370 jobs at risk.

The Park Royal site in London, which Pfizer inherited when it acquired Hospira in September, is earmarked for closure by May 2017, leaving 100 employees out of a job. The site takes liquid medicines and puts them into dosed vials, which are then sold to hospitals.

Pfizer's global cold chain packaging and distribution site in Havant, in Portsmouth will shut by the end of 2020, with 270 job losses.

The global packaging site will be consolidated in Puurs, in Belgium, where there are better production capabilities to support the product pipeline, a spokesman for Pfizer said.

so far so doomy, but here's the important bit

*These decisions have nothing to do with Brexit," the spokesman said. "This review process has been going on since 2010 and the team just felt there were more production capabilities at the site in Belgium to support future demand and to ensure we can support the supply chain."

She said consolidating operations at Puurs would help Pfizer leverage scale at the Puurs site, consolidate cold chain operations, and allows for greater network flexibility.

Park Royal, on the other hand, is an "aging facility which will require significant investment in the near future and the lease was up".

Pfizer will retain a manufacturing site similar to that of Park Royal in south London, where some capacity will move*

let's just assume for a moment you're right and RR is not affected by Brexit. I'm not saying I agree with that but let's hypothesise.

I am not making an assumption, you did, I am listening to what RR actually say and not just reading headlines, nor am I trying to conflate the job losses in the UK, whilst conveniently ignoring the job losses outside of the UK (which is more) that the RR restructure cost as being Brexit related, especially considering RR themselves and industry insiders have said so.

Does this make Brexit a success when swathes of British industry are saying they are relocating and in some cases already have?

As I have said, I am a remainer, I accept the Corporatist neoliberal agenda of the EU. So of course, in my opinion it's a bad thing. Doesn't stop some companies using Brexit as an excuse or threat, and it doesn't stop some people seeing a headline and reading some fluff piece that it is because of brexit and keep repeating it.

RR and Unilever are 2 common ones that get brought up on these types of threads.

It kind of punches a glaring hole into the often repeated mantra that Remainers are just stating facts and are not being misled by headlines.

Can i really be bothered finding the relevant stuff about the other companies you mention? No.

No

Justanotherlurker

I notice you are not actually citing any references.

Rolls-Royce has given up waiting for political consensus and started the process to move its Design Organization Approval (DOA) for large engines out of the UK, to its business jet facility in Dahlewitz, near Berlin. www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aerospace/2018-07-13/european-aerospace-braces-hard-brexit#

These are jobs currently being done by British Workers now being done by German workers. Maybe just a few but multiple it across all companies then it quickly adds up. My company is looking to send some work to Ireland as 50% of what we produce is sent to the EU.

The costs are clear but there are no actual benefits of leaving.

Here are some facts

1 in 5 UK manufacturing jobs at risk because of Brexit: study
www.politico.eu/article/brexit-manufacturing-job-losses-chartered-institute-procurement-supply-cips/

Britain has lost 65,000 retail jobs since Brexit vote
money.cnn.com/2017/12/13/news/economy/retail-jobs-uk-brexit/index.html

Jaguar Land Rover is set to cut 1,000 jobs due to Brexit ‘headwinds’
www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/13/jaguar-land-rover-to-announce-1000-job-cuts-next-week

HSBC and UBS are to shift 1,000 jobs each from UK
www.reuters.com/article/us-davos-meeting-hsbc/hsbc-ubs-to-shift-1000-jobs-each-from-uk-in-brexit-blow-to-london-idUSKBN1520SO

And we have not left yet

We can see the costs, what are the benefits again????

100 jobs is quite a lot as far as Lloyd’s of London is concerned. It’s not got a lot of staff. The staff it does have are specialist and valuable (in the main) but it’s not a big employer.

SoloD

has given up waiting for political consensus and started the process to move its Design Organization Approval (DOA) for large engines out of the UK

I never said anything to dispute this, they have started the process, which they stated back in April

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-rolls-royce-hldg/rolls-royce-could-move-engine-design-approval-to-germany-idUKKBN1HU2D9

These are jobs currently being done by British Workers now being done by German workers

Until it is official, they themselves said back in april that they do not anticipate any UK job losses because of it.

It is not as clear cut as PP made out.

As for anecdata, I work for a multinational tech company that are increasing its technical resource in the UK.

vandrew so the government hasn't asked businesses and organisations to prepare for a no deal scenario ? well that is reassuring

The only chance this country has is if we make Brexit a success. Once all the bumps are smoothed out after we have left, the country will come together again.

It would be a disaster to stop Brexit now. Are companies going to suddenly say they will start increasing investment in a country that is forced to stay in the EU but wants to leave? Will all those EU immigrants feel better in the UK not knowing if it will stay in the EU.

The uncertainty could go on for decades destroying us, while everyone waits to see if the UK will accept being forced to do what its told by Brussels or if they will fight back against the EU and push to leave in a more chaotic way.

Its a done deal now, we have to move forward.

@Walkingdeadfangirl

Hate to disappoint but it doesn't look like Brexit is going to happen. I never thought it would.

There is no way to make the best of it. Lipstick on a pig kinda stuff. Polishing a turd. Etc.