To be scared by our apathy?

[Currywurstmitpommes]

Threads on here discussing how best to stockpile food, the government telling us not to panic but at the same time making the kind of plans we shouldn’t see in peace time.

All of this is self inflicted. Largely down to our politicians worrying more about their parties than the rest of us. Austerity making us feel poorer and running down our services. Now the scary reality of next March is getting closer by the minute.

Countries have managed to royally fuck themselves before up by blindly believing the government will sort it out before. Ask yourself do you really believe that all those 650 MPs in parliament are either competent or working in your best interests?

but... its not too late

Many believe it’s a done deal with no turning back. But it can be stopped. Here’s the proof.

Speaking on the BBC Radio Today programme this morning, French Europe Minister Nathalie Loiseau confirmed that the door “remains open" to the UK, and that we could stay in the EU “on the same terms”.

Commenting, Lord (John) Kerr, the architect of Article 50 and a leading supporter of the People’s Vote campaign, said:
“It’s up to us. There would be no price – political or financial – to pay if we took back the Article 50 letter, as the French Europe Minister today confirmed we can.
“The people should have the right to choose. They deserve their vote, once the present negotiation with the EU ends.”

We all need to making our thoughts and voices heard on this. Please dont’t leave it to others - its all our futures and those of our kids.

So write to your MP, sign the facebook petition and take back control!

@SacrebleuLondres

Will they, I thought they said they would have to create a design approval office within the EU, with no job losses in the UK, and certainly nothing about production.

So no moving jobs.

OK Stars, so people who want to stop Brexit aren't necessarily doing it just for you.

Is the fact that Brexit will leave you and the poorest in society considerably worse off a good reason to support it?

Such muddled thinking is half the bloody problem!

Sadly the costs of Brexit are becoming clearer and clearer with each passing day, £20 billion a year increased customs clearance, £39 billion one of the divorce settlement, stockpiles of food and medicines, 1000 jobs going from HSBC to France, 300 going from Rolls Royce to Germany.

Can someone remind me of the benefits?

I know, I know! Blue passports!

I am hoping to find a way for my kids to have the chance to emigrate in the future. It will be very difficult I expect, but I'm encouraging them to develop skills which may make them marketable in the EU. Too late for me though.
I don't believe that Brexit will benefit anyone in the UK other than a small number of the very rich. Even they will have to get used to living in a country which is enormously divided, with all the social problems caused by poverty, massive inequality, very poor public services. Unless they emigrate, which I imagine many will.

@Justanotherlurker

So ... you believe that RR can maintain production in the UK when other manufacturers are all indicating they need to move because of JIT and regulatory compliance?

Really?

So a thread expressing concern about apathy re the biggest political change in generations is relegated to the section beyond the radar of the apathetic?

The leave side's campaign was full of bullshit. Its taken 2 years to do basically nothing and I'll bet a lot of people have different opinions now.

IF, the brexit vote had led to a public discourse about the impact of EU immigration on the poor and how we as a society hadn't faced up to that but need to, I would happily vote remain in a second referendum
I genuinely don't get this. How is the fact that there's been 'no public discourse' following the leave vote somehow the 'fault' of remain supporters? It seems pretty obvious to me that the public-school educated prominent leavers, like BJ, Farage, Rees-Mogg etc, don't give a shiny shit about the poor. How would voting leave in the event of any second referendum make it any more likely that life will improve for the poor? It may stop FOM from the EU, but will do nothing to stop other immigration.

As a member of the poorer classes myself, I also do not accept this rhetoric about remain = middle class; leave = poor. Like Susan above, I've never had an au pair, or a cleaner, or a nanny. This depiction of remain supporters as 'priviliged' or 'elite' is ridiculous. It's just another way of silencing dissent, ien't it?

*Theresa May (and others, Trump etc.) are not open to demonstrations. Protests, petitions and the like.

They just carry on regardless. Because having chanced it a few times, they've realised that they can.

Can you think of anything at all that would actually invoke another referendum for instance? Protests and petitions won't work.*

A general strike might work; a long lasting, genuinely genera,l general strike with wide-spread support. More workers voted remain than leave - more retirees leave than remain. Ideally it would start in September, since the the loss of school time would amplify the effect a little. If nothing else it would give the country a little practice for possible post-Brexit chaos.

Failing that, violence. I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that violence is underrated as a means to political change. It has been effect in the past.

the 'fault' of remain supporters?

Do keep up, everything tangentially connected with Brexit is the fault of Remain supporters.

One major issue is that the tabloid media have gotten better than ever at inciting partisanship and identity politics, meaning most people these days are absolutely incapable of critical thought. It's the same reason that Trump can basically do whatever he pleases and his base will NEVER turn against him.

Those who voted leave feel like they must defend their vote at all costs and that any criticism of this whole process would be giving in to the remoaners. People need to start thinking for themselves. Most people who voted leave did not do so expecting this "no-deal Brexit" and all the havoc it is going to cause. But they feel they must defend it regardless, because they don't want to lose face in this ridiculous battle of the leavers vs. the remainers that the press have conjured up.

For example, if I vote for Labour in the general election based on the fact that my local Labour MP says he is going to build 5 new schools and walk-in centres, and then after he wins he starts tearing down all schools and walk-in centres in our area, I would have no shame in protesting.

When the referendum was held, nobody knew what leaving would entail. People were even lied to about the benefits. We should at least be demanding (and by "we" I mean people who voted leave too) a referendum on whether we want a "no-deal Brexit" or not.

Agreed. We are a badly off 1 parent family. It is obvious to me that Brexit will make our situation far worse.
This was never about improving things for the poor. That was just part of the con trick.

We so need a new political party, both Labour and the Conservatives are awful.

So ... you believe that RR can maintain production in the UK when other manufacturers are all indicating they need to move because of JIT and regulatory compliance?

So..... you are ignoring what RR are actually saying themselves and planning, really?

@Justanotherlurker

Yes. I'm looking at how others in the same situation are reacting. And the reality of JIT supply chains and EASA regulatory requirements. I see little difference with Airbus.

Just because RR is silent doesn't mean nothing is being planned.

how precisely are you "not accepting" the vote result?

Ah. You see, what you need to do is to read what I actually said, and not something you've invented.

Why use quotation marks, fail to actual quote someone and then type something completely different to what was said?

I agree. Also I'm in the US and can't believe what Americans will tolerate. With the horror in the White House why aren't they rioting in the streets, why hasn't there been a coup?

Just because RR is silent doesn't mean nothing is being planned.

No, lets recap.

You said big businesses are moving jobs (whilst ignoring that happens all the time, etc etc)

You specifically mentioned RR, they themselves have said they are not moving jobs but will have to open a design compliance office within the EU depending on the outcomes of Brexit.

So, they haven't moved any jobs.

It's the same with the anecdata thats spotted throughout this thread, no one side can claim the moral high ground with regards to facts or just reading headlines and running with them.

I am a remainer, difference being I recognise that the EU is the ultimate neoliberal corporatist dream.

OK Stars, so people who want to stop Brexit aren't necessarily doing it just for you.
I genuinely have no, idea what you are talking about here.

Is the fact that Brexit will leave you and the poorest in society considerably worse off a good reason to support it?
See, this is my problem with the whole remainer argument. We can leave the poor to sink before and after Brexit, because things could be a lot worse for them.

Start campaigning for how things will improve for low income people if Brexit is halted. Say what will happen. Say what you will do. Say what will change from before the referendum. Apologise for the decades they were called racist for raising their concerns and ignored remember Brown?). Because telling people the only choice people like them can expect is of suck or more suck if unlikely to win them to your side.

bette davies
huge apologies. It's 'cos I'm a thick leaver.
OK, how do you plan to "not accept" what is happening?
Better?

@CocoaGin70

Given the fact we survived as a nation until 1973 without being part of the EU, I'll take my chances.

The UK/GB is not a nation.

@thestarsatnight

Oh here we go, But Brexit will hit the poorest hardest. Yeah, funny how that only ever comes up as an afterthought from my middle class friends, or on threads like this, when I raise these issues. It is not what you lot are centreing in your arguments, so stop pretending it is.

Not an afterthought in Scotland. It's been the main point in the campaign to stay.

Justanotherlurker

They will shift some jobs to Germany as the work certifying the engines which is done now in the UK will be done in Germany. This may or may not result in job losses. But you ignore the fact that RR is currently cutting 4000+ jobs

This makes sobering reading
ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-companies/

Start campaigning for how things will improve for low income people if Brexit is halted

Why don't you start campaigning Stars!

Your argument that you would vote to leave even though it will make things worse, just because someone who doesn't like Brexit has ignored you for decades (along with all the people who do support Brexit and want to keep you downtrodden), really, really doesn't make the slightest bit of sense! Not one iota of logic!