Scottish Nationalists: Why leave one union to join another?

[FrancinePefko42]

From my understanding, the primary motive for Scotland leaving the United Kingdom is to have full autonomy as independent sovereign state - with all the freedom that would confer.

Why does being closely tied to Brussels have greater appeal than retaining the ties with England?

I think you'll enjoy the thread motheroffourdragons - francine kept on teeing up "killer" arguments and providing a brilliant platform for those of us who believe in independence to make our case

She did us a favour

Very interesting thread.

I'm Scottish but had no say in the indy referendum as I happen to be living in England at the moment. (That's another issue but don't want to derail the thread).

I totally get the disillusionment with the UK parliament but as other PPs have said it's not only the Scots who feel this. I'm in the North East and a lot of people here feel the same way.

Brexit has turned into a shit storm and while I do understand the reasoning behind staying in Europe whilst leaving the U. K. I'm not convinced that the EU is this great, benevolent institution which is working tirelessly for its constituent members.

Interesting if troubling times and would love to be able to time travel 10 years into the future to see how it all pans out!

59 parliamentary seats means nothing when one member of the union has more than enough seats to just pass whatever it wants...

We're thinking about moving to Scotland as it may be a better option in the ling run.

Interestingly I noticed earlier in the thread that scottish independence was disparaged because it's touted as being only about faith.

What's brexit then?

tabulahrasa
parliamentary seats means nothing when one member of the union has more than enough seats to just pass whatever it wants...
Yanis Varoufakis would say the same about Germany.

Prettybird
For clarity, one more time, if the people of Scotland voted for independence I would wish them well.
This thread was to understand why you would fight for independence with one hand but relinquish it with the other.
The SN argument seems to be "Yes!! We're strong and rich enough to make it on our own...No we aren't!!!"

Both can't be true.

For what it’s worth if Brexit happens, and if Scotland becomes independent of the UK and rejoins the EU, I’d consider trying to move to Scotland if they’d have me.

Me too. DP is a Scot anyway, but I'm hoping you'll have us both

Nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not you "wish us well for independence" : you asked a question. It was answered - multiple times, from multiple different perspectives, with examples. One union is not comparable with another Union with different rules.

You don't like the answers, so refuse to accept them.

Nevertheless, others get to read what has been said and can make their own judgement.

For which I thank you

Why would an independent Scotland have only one seat in the European Parliament when we currently have six MEPs (including the odious Coburn)?

You're very welcome.
Do you gurn as much as that when you are having a conversation in real life?

My apologies. I meant 1 constituency in the European Parliament. Six MEPs.

Do you gurn as much as that when you are having a conversation in real life?
Sorry, who are you insulting with the above?

This thread was to understand why you would fight for independence with one hand but relinquish it with the other

I think it's perhaps worth noting that (IIRC) amongst indy supporters about half are for Brexit and half against.

Do you gurn as much as that when you are having a conversation in real life?

Nice, OP. I think your status as a Goady Fucker, posting in bad faith, is confirmed.

Actually I think I've stayed remarkably polite in the face of someone who refuses to accept straight answers

The posts speak for themselves People reading can make their own judgements as to who is the GF

I'm watching English schools being made into Academiess for profiteers, children being taught there by unqualified staff, the NHS being surreptitiously privatised, the UK getting embroiled time after time in wars we don't need to be involved in, parents having to pay tuition fees, services for disabled and elderly being slashed. It's not how I think a country should be run. I think we can do better (in fact I think we already are, where powers are devolved).

Would you countenance a border between Scotland and England?

Motheroffourdragons

QMV means that your MEP has a vote quantified by the number of people they represent, so for a lot of votes going forward it doesn't matter whether you have 23 MEPs or 1, except in so far as how your MEP votes, the people s/he represents are heard

In a "parliament" that lacks legislative initiative.
Right across Europe, voter turnout for elections to the European Parliament are in rapid decline. Why? Because people realise it lacks any real power. Its members have voted repeatedly end the charade of decamping from Brussels to Strasburg every month but have been to go fuck themselves by France on this issue time after time.

Motheroffourdragons
Scottish people were told that staying together meant staying in the EU
Was there some doubt that an independent Scotland could be able to rejoin?

Motheroffourdragons

A majority of us agreed that it made economical sense for Scotland to stay, we were told that we couldn't stand to lose the business that we would do should we have left the UK. Well that's a load of rubbish clearly - the same argument is there for leaving the EU and the will of the people is that we don't give a rat's arse for economic arguments

Do you? 65% - 70% of your trade is with the rest of the UK.