Scottish Nationalists: Why leave one union to join another?

[FrancinePefko42]

From my understanding, the primary motive for Scotland leaving the United Kingdom is to have full autonomy as independent sovereign state - with all the freedom that would confer.

Why does being closely tied to Brussels have greater appeal than retaining the ties with England?

Keeptrudging
I think we can do better (in fact I think we already are, where powers are devolved)

I agree. You could do a lot better.

“Was there some doubt that an independent Scotland could be able to rejoin?”

One of the main arguments for the no campaign was that Scotland would no longer be in the EU and wouldn’t be able to rejoin because Spain would block it.

For what it’s worth if Brexit happens, and if Scotland becomes independent of the UK and rejoins the EU, I’d consider trying to move to Scotland if they’d have me.

I would too. Maybe it's worth moving there now - not sure yet, and family commitments are keeping us in England.

Apologies for posting a link, but Spain have already stated they would not block Scotland. Of course Scotland would have to apply to join, but it already follows all the EU regulations so is in a different, much stronger position than other applicants.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/02/spain-drops-plan-to-impose-veto-if-scotland-tries-to-join-eu

Given that Francine keeps on giving us lovely opportunities to make our point , I though that others might be interested by this blog - by someone who understands Spanish and lived in Spain

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2016/07/22/the-real-spanish-veto-threat/

So far from threatening to veto Scotland's joining the EU which it hasn't , the Spanish Government has threatened to veto a Brexit deal over Gibraltar.

And unlike Scotland in the UK, Spain, as a single country in the EU, does have that power with regard to trade deals.

The financial case for an independent Scotland is laughable. That’s why most hardened independent voters are viewed by many with frustration and anger.

Please remember that it’s an utter myth that most SNP supporters voted Remain. They did not and Nicola sturgeon forgot that too.

I think the Brexit vote demonstrated very clearly to Scottish people that Westminster is not representative of them in such a huge way it's unavoidable. The Brexit vote came as a huge shock, it's really not what Scotland wants.

Current government policies and decisions feel very much more alien now. I now feel that England is definitely a different country whereas before I felt more British than anything. The treatment of our MPs recently in the debating chamber also doesn't help, despite not being an SNP voter typically.

45 per cent of Scottish people voted Leave. That’s not much lower than those in England who voted Remain.

A lot of Scottish people want out the EU and that’s especially the case in rural places

“Apologies for posting a link, but Spain have already stated they would not block Scotland. Of course Scotland would have to apply to join, but it already follows all the EU regulations so is in a different, much stronger position than other applicants.”

Oh I I know...

But in 2014, Scotland was going to the back of the queue, Spain was going to veto entry and voting no was the only way to stay in the EU... and it was madness to consider coming out, apparently.

“Please remember that it’s an utter myth that most SNP supporters voted Remain. They did not and Nicola sturgeon forgot that too.”

I don’t think she did tbh, I’d imagine she’s very aware that a huge amount of no voters were voting in 2014 based on EU membership (you’d have had to have paid no attention at all to the independence referendum to think otherwise) and she’s now hoping they’ll become SNP supporters.

I know SNP members who voted Leave out of fear of TTIP.

They've acknowledged their error now. If they'd done their research properly, they'd have found out that while the UK was prepared to sign it (and sign away protection for the NHS ), other European countries were working hard to put in protections and exemptions for key industries - and still weren't happy with it so were going to veto it (as they are entitled to do, for trade deals, unlike Scotland in the so called "Union" of the UK ).

The brexit vote turnout in Glasgow was 56%.

Nearly half of Glasgow's voting population didn't care enough about brexit to put a cross on a bit of paper.

If brexit passion is the only thing fuelling demand for indy2 then I think it's going to be more Yes tears before bedtime.

....and yet, in my ethnically diverse part of Glasgow, 72% voted Remain

Indeed Mother - Glasgow did vote Yes

If I remember, Glasgow also had one of the lowest turnouts at indyref?

My point being the overwhelming majority of Scots against brexit is actually the overwhelming majority of Scots who cared enough to vote at all.

It's not enough to carry a significant majority in a vote that will attract a much higher turnout.

Turnout in Glasgow was indeed lower - at a respectable 75%, compared to the 85% across the country (the highest turnout ever for an election or referendum in the UK) and still managed to vote Yes by 55% to 45%

This was despite coming across EU immigrants while I was out canvassing for Yes who'd been told by No canvassers/campaigners who'd preceded us that (variously) they weren't allowed to vote a lie and/or that they'd be sent "home" immediately after a Yes vote a lie in a variant of "Scotland will be kicked out of the EU".

You're right Mother - MorrisZapp's comment doesn't make sense.

The overwhelming majority of those that cared enough to vote in the EU Referendum were in favour of Remain