Scottish Nationalists: Why leave one union to join another?

[FrancinePefko42]

From my understanding, the primary motive for Scotland leaving the United Kingdom is to have full autonomy as independent sovereign state - with all the freedom that would confer.

Why does being closely tied to Brussels have greater appeal than retaining the ties with England?

This explains it, Scottish noses being rubbed in this again by Westminister:

http://www.thenational.scot/comment/16374993.supreme-court-hears-the-sentence-that-says-it-all-about-the-dis-united-kingdom/

“The UK Parliament is sovereign, the Scottish Parliament is not.”

With this one sentence during his long, complex and polite submission to the UK Supreme Court, the Advocate General for Scotland, Lord Richard Sanderson Keen, Baron Keen of Elie,
bared Westminster’s teeth and snarled the truth.

And yet just the other day, WM agreed [http://www.thenational.scot/news/16333441.read-ian-blackfords-full-speech-on-scottish-sovereignty-in-heated-commons-debate/ the people of Scotland are sovereign]] and our Parliament represents us...

Gah. www.thenational.scot/news/16333441.read-ian-blackfords-full-speech-on-scottish-sovereignty-in-heated-commons-debate/

I'd have been within my rights to ask MNHQ for at least one if not more of Francine's posts to be deleted on the basis that they were personal attacks - but I'm more than happy for his or her posts to stand to demonstrate the character of the person he or she is

Going back to the original topic, compare and contrast the fact that TM, in her first White Paper about Brexit (there really should have been one it at least some plans before the Referendum ) admitted that the UK had never actually lost its sovereignty but that it just felt like it had , with the shenanigans in the Supreme Court today where the UK Government makes it explicit that the Scottish Government has no sovereignty and that Westminster rules it . This despite the fact that any Scot will say that the Scottish people - not the Queen, not Westminster - are sovereign. The UK Government is playing into the independence supporters' hands with its statements.

One reason for the Scots to join the EU is that they feel that a union with a bigger group with clout is better than a union with a small group which has totally lost its way.

BTW I knew that Francine would come out with those 'reasons'.

Spoiling a vote is IMO the only valid protest - you show that you care about the democratic process but are dissatisfied with its current form. Not bothering to turn out shows nothing.

Dh had a big argument with my very political parents early on in my relationship as at that point he used to spoil his vote with "None of the above" - but at least he voted!

Since 1997 (when we were doorstepped by Nicola and she spent 45 minutes having a very reasoned discussion with him), he's made a decision to vote SNP every election until Scotland wins independence. Then he'll make a judgement about the crop of politicians we have to choose from - but at the moment, he can't see much further than Nicola, who he has been impressed by in professional, political and personal contexts.

I've also met Nicola a few times, plus on other occasions listened to her give a speech then field unscripted (not always friendly) questions. She's one of the few politicians I've met who has impressed me. It's a shame the general public don't get to hear her like that, she's often brutally edited on mainstream media.

Compare and contrast Nicola and Theresa...

(I'll stop now before the emoji-police clock back on).

keeptrudging

Am looking for the 'innocently whistling emoji, can't find one so you'll just have to combine these two

I'd rather not - as there's some good stuff on this thread answering the OP which should help encourage a few Lurkers about the case for Scottish independence

....although I know that wasn't Francine's intention all the more reason for people to read the thread

Peregrina
BTW I knew that Francine would come out with those 'reasons'
Spoiling a vote is IMO the only valid protest - you show that you care about the democratic process but are dissatisfied with its current form. Not bothering to turn out shows nothing

I promise that from now on, Peregrina, I will only protest in a way that meets with your approval.

Motheroffourdragons
I'll stop now before the emoji-police clock back on
They do work funny hours

Actually I am working hard during the day to get ready to resit my Highers
I hope one day to get into university, may be St Andrews if they'll have me. I know their standards are very high. Hopefully to study dual honours in "Economics with Emojis"

I can but dream. Rest assured though - when that day comes ... I will only mention it several times an hour.

prettybird
I'd have been within my rights to ask MNHQ for at least one if not more of Francine's posts to be deleted on the basis that they were personal attacks

You can dish it prettybird. But you can't take it can you?

I think prettybird has been more than patient with your repeated ad hominems, actually. Have you come up with a good reason for Scotland to leave the EU yet?

You're welcome to report any of my posts where you think I've made a personal attack on you.

Of wait.....there aren't any

The closest is one where I state that you were being obtuse....because you were.

I am very careful never to resort to personal insults on any social media - even anonymous social media - and will never say or argue anything I wouldn't be prepared to do to someone's face.

But as I've said, I'm more than happy for you to make your points, as they do wonders for the case for independence. , which obviously I support, given my posting history.

HirplesWithHaggis
Have you come up with a good reason for Scotland to leave the EU yet?

Scotland is in the EU.

?

The United Kingdom is in the EU.
Scotland voted to remain within the UK.
The UK is leaving the EU.

Scotland was never in the EU in its own right

I may not have my Highers yet....but even I knew this.

We couldn't leave it if we weren't.

Erm...er....o..kay....I guess?

x post.

We know all that. But if/when we become indy, most of us want to be in the EU. The UKs decision is the largest driving force for indy, beause WM is handling Brexit so badly we really couldn't do any worse on our own. Food stockpiling? Rationing? Why would we want to be part of that when we voted against it?

You claim not to understand why we would want to stay in the EU, and we've explained. You seem still unconvinced. So, other than "your numerically superior neighbours are leaving so you have to suffer too", what reasons have you for us to go willingly, rather than kicking and screaming?