Scottish Nationalists: Why leave one union to join another?

[FrancinePefko42]

From my understanding, the primary motive for Scotland leaving the United Kingdom is to have full autonomy as independent sovereign state - with all the freedom that would confer.

Why does being closely tied to Brussels have greater appeal than retaining the ties with England?

Scotland is a net exporter of beef, lamb and seafood but a net importer of fruit and veg. So we might need to develop more polytunnels

I was just saying to dh and a few days ago that a hard Brexit combined with an Indy Scotland could see the Rosyth-Zeebrugge route rejuvenated. Plus perhaps routes to Esbjerg and Bergen.

On the West Coast, Cairnryan and/or Stranraer could develop direct crossings to Dublin (assuming that NI is not part of the SM/CU to avoid a hard border ). The ports on the Clyde (like Port Glasgow) declined after the single market and the Channel crossings - it might be a good boost for them

Dublin has already invested in extra large ferries to bypass Wales/England and go directly to the continent.

“They require overnight ferry journeys.”

Because ferry companies wouldn’t be willing to add those if they’d be profitable?

I must have imagined all those freight lorries on the overnight Hull - Zeebrugge ferries

So Scotland's too far/tricky to do import/export trade with, but apparently India/China/America are all easy-peasy and rUK will have amazing and beautiful trade deals with them once it's freed itself from the shackles of EU?

Would makingthe best of it include a brain drain from the rest of the UK? People who want to create a more like minded nation?

Given that at the moment we have a brain drain down to the black hole magnet that is London and the South East of England and Scotland needs more immigrants than the UK immigration policy allows (Scotland's population is barely above what it was in the 60s ), then I don't see why not!

And that the much bigger remain vote was due to people following SNP policy

I'm a member of several business groups and have yet to come across a single "leave" voter - and I imagine very few of the individuals are SNP supporters. Most voted No in the Indyref (although some changing their mind now). I'm active in the Labour Party and I don't know of any leave supporters there. I personally know two Conservative MPs - both voted Remain.

The only leavers I know of are some people in the Greens (one a councillor) and some family who think there are too many furriners. (Yep, in the Highlands, where industry would grind to a halt without migrant workers) Oh - and of course- Jim Sillars, yesterday's man, upset at all these new folks joining his party.

I know one person who voted leave as it's what their deceased parent would have wanted. This person did not in a million years think the vote would go the way it did, or they wouldn't have wasted their vote.

As for Jim Sillars, I honestly don't get where he's coming from now, he's the gift that keeps on giving

That’s the silliest reason I have heard yet for voting leave! A dead person has absolutely no interest in what happens in the future.

For fucks sake.

Yup. They're absolutely mortified. Every time anything comes up about Brexit, we blame them.

I know one person who voted Leave even though she supported the EU/Remain because she "wanted to stick one on that bitch Sturgeon"

(she was only an acquaintance and I've not seen her since the vote but I bet she is feeling a bit sick )

I'm truly impressed by the level of thought that goes into some people's voting choices.

I know one young man who wants indy, but misunderstood the, "If rUK vote Leave and Scotland votes Remain, we'll get indyref2" thing... and voted Leave. Ah well, same end result, and he'll vote Yes when it matters.

Peregrina
For what it’s worth if Brexit happens, and if Scotland becomes independent of the UK and rejoins the EU, I’d consider trying to move to Scotland if they’d have me.

Very, very powerful argument.
You've won me over.

*Motheroffourdragons

"Right across Europe, voter turnout for elections to the European Parliament are in rapid decline. Why? Because people realise it lacks any real power."

How does this fit with the idea that we wanted our sovereignty back? If the EU has no real power then why all the bother with Brexit?

The only part of the European Union that is elected by EU citizens is the European Parliament. It shouldn't really be called a European "parliament" at all because it lacks legislative initiative. All the real power of the EU rests with the European Commission (which is not elected by ordinary citizens)

If this is the "freedom" Scotland has always dreamed of - I wish you well.

Motheroffourdragons
I know a lot of my family now have switched from labour to SNP

Thus guaranteeing a Tory majority in Westminster and Tory PM in Downing Street.

Danniz

Thank you for sharing the link above. Very interesting reading...
Data collected using the random probability-based NatCen and ScotCen Panels demonstrates that, as amongst voters elsewhere in Britain, the majority of voters in Scotland wish to end freedom of movement whilst maintaining free trade with the EU.

And this is with 94% of EU migrants settling in England.

Motheroffourdragons
If anybody that doesn't like it, I'm sure will be happily welcomed in the mother ship England.

*Motheroffourdragons

Of course there would be massive implications. It would have to be looked at in greater detail next time around. But nothing is insurmountable.

You sound like the most ardent Brexiteer.

I believe I can fly...

prettybird
Given that at the moment we have a brain drain down to the black hole magnet that is London

Why do you call London a black hole?

Francine what are all these questions for? Your OP was answered.

I feel your 'I wish you well' and saying you are for Scotland becoming independent might not be entirely true. You seem annoyed.

Just an observation. It's your thread of course.

“Thus guaranteeing a Tory majority in Westminster and Tory PM in Downing Street.”

It makes no difference - if every SNP seat had returned as labour in the last two elections (the only ones where there have been significant SNP seats) they would have had the same outcome.

I ask questions where a pp's comment has sparked my curiosity.
Personally I believe government should be as local as possible and crucially that ordinary citizen should have the ability to get rid of those in power if they are not happy with them. That's why I could wish an independent Scotland well (if thay is what its citizens decide) but not understand why it would want to immediately relinquish it's new found freedom to Brussels.

A country the size and power and funding of the UK found it impossible to influence unelected officials like Junker.

I know., I know...it's leaving a nasty abusive husband and going to a nice, appreciative one...