What is the solution to the Irish border?

[MegCleary]

Keen to hear, as I am struggling.

Build a fake island lol!

Is this why some Tories are hinting at another general election? Are they hoping they can get a big enough majority to be able to dump the DUP?

Wouldn't be surprised. Not needing the DUP any more would allow May to square the circle of an Ireland border/being out of CU and SM.

I don't know what current popularity polling looks like, though. Is it a big gamble for the Tories, after the last election? Or are they more popular now and likely to win?

beanaseirann - my parents are also from NI, as am I. I have lived here my whole life and Irish history was thoroughly covered at gcse and A level. I have heard of the Plantation of Ulster!

What tentothree meant with that comment was that Ireland when it consisted of 32 counties was not a Republic.

A basic point despite being 1/4 Irish descent there's so much I don't get and no remaining relatives to ask...It just occurred to me that if you read of the troubles in a history book and then read that a mere 20 years later a U.K./ NI/ Irish border was contemplated. Then shortly after that the NI assembly collapsed for different reasons ....

and if you then read a border was then imposed at a time there was no NI Assembly. And then you read that at that time only one NI party sat and by coincidence they carried the balance of power at Westminster ..

What would you think? From an historical perspective it would look weirdly dodgy wouldn't it?

Shouldn't priority number one have been to delay triggering Article 50 until there was a Stormont assembly to be involved in the process. Has Westminster really made enough effort to try and help restore it? Shouldn't this be an all hands on deck number one priority?

I actually watched the Northern Ireland select committee meetings very early in the brexit process and it was clear that MPs on all sides had no idea whatsoever of the implications for the Irish border.

Some had inklings (eg Lady Hermon) but the actual situation was far far more complicated than any of them thought.

What would you think? From an historical perspective it would look weirdly dodgy wouldn't it?

Well, yes, indeed.

In RL, I've been surprised how few people seem to think that the whole border question is anything other than the Irish just trying to cause trouble (again). I really appreciate this thread, where i am reassured that I am not the only person who sees that this really is ... tricky, to say the least.

Stormont collapsed in January 2017 then Article 50 was triggered (after the court case) 10 weeks later...There definitely should have been a delay to work at restoring Stormont first.

( That and a delay to come up with impact assessments and a detailed, agreed white paper proposal FIRST.)

It's so depressing. I think a lot of this 'war on terror' business has strengthened the hands of those who have always called us terrorists too and encourage their thuggish young sons to come up with stuff like 'Death to Taigs'.

From a historical perspective it looks very very dodgy, but how much is deliberate and how much is just due to woeful ignorance on behalf of the Westminster politicians in charge, so they blunder around without realising the damage they cause? I recall Teresa Villiers was NI secretary at the time of the Referendum and was in the Leave camp, Brokenshire I don't think was in post very long, and the current one, Bradley is happy to admit to not knowing about NI. Theresa May also has shown herself to be clueless about history.

However the ignorance of May and Bradley is so bad it probably goes beyond negligence - one of the things they both should have done was have a crash course in Irish history.

For me, I think the solution is for Wales & England to leave the EU, with Scotland & NI remaining in the EU.

Yes I think eventually that’s how it will all turn out with the UK so essentially fragmented..once polls and referenda are all done and dusted in a decade’s time.

Yes lonelyplanet you couldnt make it up!!!

Agree. NI has never been part of the Republic. It can't be just given back, that doesn't make sense!

What? I suggest you open a book on Irish history.

I suppose Ireland wasn't a Republic when it was a united country.

Rdoo - I have! More than once.

Have a quick referendum in Northern Ireland and ask them if they (a) want to stay in the EU or (b) want to stay within the UK

If they wish to stay in the EU they have to leave the UK and become an independent nation, then they will just need border arrangements with non EU members like the UK or Great Britain as it will become.

If they really want to stay within the UK put up a hard border with the Republic and cope with any escalation of violence that might arise. If the political will exists to live in peace (which it appears to) why should they revert back to the bad old days of the troubles?

No doubt the EU will thrash out some wishy washy deal which nobody is happy with.

@DanielCfK that would be guaranteed to start the troubles again. The place is still a powderkeg.

"cope with any escalation of violence that might arise"

I assume you are too young to remember if you casually say this. By the way, violence and terrorism comes onto mainland uk. Google Manchester bombs. Google Warrington bombs. Google London . google Brighton. Google Birmingham.

I have to smile at the 'look at the Irish, causing trouble again' brigade. I think you'll find that there is only one direction from which trouble has come and it's definitely not from us. Ireland has always been unified until 1922, even though we were occupied by a foreign power. The north can definitely be 'given back'. It was only formed as a protectorate for irate Anglo-Irish who were terrified of the spectre of an independent Irish state. They all fled north.

It's embarrassing that no one in Westminster has the first inkling about Ireland and our politics and it exposes the fact that they're not even interested in it. Maybe lack of interest shows that it is way beyond time to give it back. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? Nah...

@nollaig16 - while "giving it back" seems like a simple solution, this doesn't take into account the Unionist community (they aren't all DUP creationist loons) and the fact that Ireland might not be too keen to have a Unionist "problem ". My late mum always used to say " we don't bloody want them" . Which is kind of hard on ordinary people and makes them prey to creationist loons (and worse, obviously).

Sooner or later the EU will probably implode anyway and the Republic will no longer be part of it so an another alternative is the Republic just leave the EU now and save delaying matters.

The best solution would be if we could go back in time to the 16th century and for the English and then Scots to never set foot in Ireland at all but sadly time travel isn't possible and even if it was how could you convinve a tyranical king like Henry VIII and all his successors that not setting foot on Ireland would be the best solution for a future Great Britain leaving the EU and would they even care?

Apparently a recent poll said that 52% in the north would vote for a unified Ireland after Brexit.
[https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-would-boost-support-for-united-ireland-poll-finds-1.3616129]

If there was a unified Ireland - think what great football and rugby teams you'd have. but I'm not Irish so it's got very little to do with me.

Time travel isn't an option @DanielCfK .

but I'm not Irish so it's got very little to do with me
Like the WIndrush generation you live in a country whose infrastructure was sustained and built by Irish and Commonwealth 'immigrants'.

Racism has ensured that britain's affluence has been subsidised by this state's colonialism.

I think you will find that it will have a lot to do with you very soon.