What is the solution to the Irish border?

[MegCleary]

Keen to hear, as I am struggling.

@WitchyMcWitchface - any kind of ANPR machine or whatever will be shot out or just vandalised within minutes of being installed. It's as simple as that.

There's a border between Ukraine and Poland. A relatively friendly one. Two minutes to get through if all is ok. Ever been in a traffic jam? Everyone's two minutes adds up and you get jams for over three hours. Try transporting milk or livestock with a 3 hour wait factored in. And that's a border that has little or no tension around it.

The impression I got was that as so many crossed the border daily (locals and others) a secure customs would be required. But you are saying there are tensions, do so many cross despite risks and tensions, doesn't make sense to me if there is risk each time you cross you would avoid crossing.
And they could include the time to go through border with their beasts in the calculations. Cattle are ferried over large distances in Europe. Unless the laws have changed no one says you can't do it because it takes too long. Perhaps build dairies on the same side as the farms. See what I mean, I think people bring up problems. How much for the Gov to build a dairy if that is the main sticking point.

Seriously, @WitchyMcWitchface . Google the Troubles. Google Warrenpoint.Before you skip down the road of everyone just being a bit nicer. Despite versions of Christianity being in play here (at least nominally) being nice isn't a realistic option.

There is relative peace in NI at the moment, it was a long and hard process to get to this point. Have you heard of the Good Friday agreement? The people in NI did not vote for Brexit.

It's really hard to describe unless you go there. In addition to actions of dissident republican organisations who may just shoot down any controls, it other people too.

Although of distant Irish descent Ive only visited Ireland a couple of times and NI once but it's overwhelmingly mind blowing to see the areas where the troubles were and talk to people. Just indescribable.

It's not about practical solutions because it's about feelings and people's sense of self? A border affects the feelings of heritage and belonging of everyone, including those who are less politically active - there'd civil disobedience.

I can't really come up with an analogy can anyone? Is it sort of like putting up electronic barriers in any coastal town all along the sea front, and then saying to locals this is what you now have to do now to visit the beach.Or doing something that denies football supporters access to their team?

The border or lack of was all things to all people. That was it's magic trick.

Yes, I remember the troubles. But doesn't the EU remember the troubles. Do they really want the problems stirred up again.
It's hard to accept that those in parliament in EU and the UK don't want the best solution for everyone.
I'm not trying to be glib but a solution needs to be found. Someone has to give somewhere.

The something that has to give is the DUP accept a border in the Irish Sea or Brexiteers accept that we all stay in the customs union.
That's the something that has to give.
And, tobe clear , it's not the EU that caused this. WTO rules require you to be in charge of crossings on your border.

TMay calling the last election gave the DUP more power was not a good move.

@WitchyMcWitchface - none of this shitshow would be happening if people had voted the way NI did. To Remain. People could vest their hopes and dreams in Corbyn if they wanted to. And then he could fuck it up and be gone. And we'd still be in EU

But the immigration (which I blame on Blair and Brown) did not affect NI or Scotland the way it did in parts of England.

Please look at why NI voted Remain. It was bigger than some dark skinned non-EU born neighbour or some Polish shop in town.

Yes, I can see why politically and geographically they want to remain, finally achieving a peace agreement they don't want anything to jeopardize it.

That way any suspicious activity eg someone entering 6 times a day

MIL used to cross the border twice to get to school. Going to and school and then popping to the local village would have her at six times in a day,no bother. I don't think you understand just how invisible the border is now.

The EU has borders all along it's eastern edge. Can no one cross any of these hundreds of miles of border?

After Brexit, there will be more land border crossing points inn Ireland than the entire eastern edge of the EU. It's impossible to police. When the British government tried before,they did so by blowing up roads and blocking them. The government, not terrorists. Try to imagine how that would go down now.

If Ireland and NI aren't both in the customs union and single market, the border needs to be policed. Regardless of what the UK, EU and Ireland want, international law still applies.

That way any suspicious activity eg someone entering 6 times a day

I take it @WitchyMcWitchface has never looked at a map of the Irish border. There are places where the border loops in on itself and you could cross the border twice in the space of a few minutes while going in a straight line.

I was thinking of lorries with goods not really the shepherds collie crossing 20 times as he herds the sheep😁

• but I take on board what you say.

But if you're only going to police the nation crossings, why wouldn't lorries smuggling go across at the small rural crossings? Once you have a border, you have to police it all or may as well police none of it.

*police the main crossings....

Witchy, I’m from the border, born and raised. Homes and gardens straddle it and guess what else...Irish people don’t recognise its legitimacy. Asking them to clock in and out of their own country Would be at best futile, at worst a spark to start something we never want to get back to. This is about more than economics. It’s about people and how they see themselves. Apart from the absolute impracticalities, it would tear a hard fought peace process to pieces.

But the immigration (which I blame on Blair and Brown) did not affect NI or Scotland the way it did in parts of England.

But the most diverse parts of England with most immigration voted remain (most of London). By and large, it was areas with very little diversity (north of England/Wales) that voted leave - fear of the unknown.

Yes, I remember the troubles. But doesn't the EU remember the troubles. Do they really want the problems stirred up again.
It's hard to accept that those in parliament in EU and the UK don't want the best solution for everyone.

How in any way is the EU's responsibility?

They didn't kick the UK out...

**Yes, I remember the troubles. But doesn't the EU remember the troubles. Do they really want the problems stirred up again. It's hard to accept that those in parliament in EU and the UK don't want the best solution for everyone.

It is precisely because the EU remembers the troubles that they have offered a unique and unprecedented deal to NI which the British govt (fuelled by DUP hysteria) refuses to countenance.

Exactly @HappyHugs - this is a unique and positive deal offer which could turn NI into a booming special economic zone.

@bellinisurge .... and break up the United Kingdom of GB and NI. Given you are supportive of this "unique and positive offer", I must assume that you are happy with the breakup?