What is the solution to the Irish border?

[MegCleary]

Keen to hear, as I am struggling.

I'm with Okpedro, it's the republic of Ireland.

No one I know would say they come from the republic of Ireland. If asked they would say they come from Ireland and might name the county. The only time I hear the ROI is on English news.

Well I live in Belfast and have always referred to the south of Ireland as Southern Ireland or down south or just Ireland or the Irish Republic or even the free state when talking to my centenarian grandmother and if it annoys anyone too bad ( it hasn’t though). Who really cares? Language is open to many interpretations.Xenia however please never refer to modern Ireland as Catholic Ireland ...just no! You are getting yourself tied up in knots now.

When talking to people living in Ireland (the republic that is) just call it Irish and assume they are Irish. When talking about them, assume they are Irish and talk about the republic of Ireland if there is a need to differentiate between it and NI. Otherwise it is just Ireland. When talking about Northern Ireland, you can always call it Northern Ireland. (Patriots in Ireland tend to call it 'our wee north' as if it is a lost lamb :)) When talking to people from Northern Ireland and if you must know how to address them, ask how they prefer to identify. Most feel British or Irish but most will also not object to 'Northern Irish' which isn't really a thing. When talking about people from NI, call them people from NI.

just call it Ireland

Yes exactly Eeny, Ireland may be officially called the Republic of Ireland, but no one is going to say ‘Hi I’m from the Republic of Ireland’, ‘the Islamic republic of Iran’ or indeed ‘the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland’.

Ireland is actually the official name for the ‘island of Ireland’, that term is only used for disambiguation on the news etc.

From the time I was a child my Nana insisted we say we are from the ROI
She lived through the black and tans and was obviously very bitter after her experiences
She was born in 1913 and she remembered with fondness when we became the ROI

I've never introduced myself and announced my nationality

I'm usually asked (if the person isn't irish obviously) "Oh are you Irish"
I say yes I'm from -insert county-

I find this "why is everyone so prickly about names" a bit silly. The UK is generally called England when you go abroad. Which is a bit shit if you are Scottish or Welsh.
Not hard to get names right.

Okay, so it's complicated. I feel like I am on a transgender thread... so ask the person what their preferred country references are and then their preferred pronouns for gender. I am not sure if and in what context I said Catholic Ireland above but I certainily would never call it that. I also have hardly ever heard anyone say Southern Ireland since I was a very small child. it reminds me of committee meetings (which I try to avoid) where they spend the hour's meeting arguing over the structure of the group rather than any of the issues on the agenda. If we cannot even easily agree terms to use for the various parts of the geographical island I can see why it's very difficult.

Anyway I wish all part of Ireland well in the Brexit process. We in London are mostly for Remain so one with Ireland on all this.

Which is a bit shit if you are Scottish or Welsh.

Which is extremely annoying.

It is indeed extremely annoying.

But what is a sad indictment of the perception of England around the world is the way that people's attitudes warm towards you once you say that you are Scottish, not English

In support of Xenia - I on occasions got annoyed reading some of her statements on this thread, but she does genuinely appear to have been trying to learn more from a position of relative ignorance . Which is more than the WM Government is doing

It's complicated because there are two cultures.that's not the fault of the people who live there. Don't imply people in Northern Ireland are being difficult. Most of them have spent a life time innocently trying to walk the line and not say the wrong thing.

That's not the fault

Cleebope to call the entire country southern Ireland is quite insulting and dismissive. Who cares? Well I would say anyone living in Ireland. I actually live in the South of Ireland but I'm sure someone living in Mayo or Dublin would find it weird to be called Southern Ireland. It's like saying we are from the North and everything after that is Southern. Well no it's not. Ireland only officially became a republic in 1949 after 800 years So yes we care about our name.

Actually it annoys me how prickly people get (again I only see it on mumsnet generally) about not calling Ireland the South. When you’re in Northern Ireland (and catholic background, don’t know if everyone does) it feels weird to just say Ireland because Northern Ireland is also Ireland - indeed at the time when the Constitution gave the country the name Ireland it did in fact include NI (because of articles 2 and 3). When those were removed maybe the name of the country should have been renamed so that southerners (ahem) stop getting so offended that people sometimes think that Ireland needs a qualifier. God forbid “Ireland” should be confused with that awful place “Northern Ireland”.

I do say Ireland because I now live there and it is legally correct but it didn’t come easily at the start!

Eenymeeny If the people of NI voted for reunification, would you really refuse? It seems like a bit of an 'I'm all right, Jack' attitude when NI is condemned to be an economic backwater

Honestly at this moment i don't know, I would need to find out all the information about it. It has nothing to do with ' I'm alright Jack' attitude. It has mainly to do with how a some people of Northern Ireland feel about the Irish in general. I have been in sites and to be honest there is a very die hard hatred for the Irish by some. These people see themselves as British full stop. There is no way they will agree with reunification with Ireland . It could lead to a rise of violence and fighting. I am old enough to remember the past, the violence, the deaths, the bombings. I remember people having to leave their homes because of total fear with nothing but a few bags, leaving their entire lives behind. Any risk to the peace there now needs to be for damned good reason. I mean come on they can't find an answer to the border do you honestly think reunification is an acceptable answer, that all sides would willing agree to.

So it's ok for people from Northern Ireland to be offended to be called Irish but heaven forbid that Irish people would get prickly about their entire country been wrongly called Southern Ireland. Ok then!!

I think there are way more things that English people get wrong about Ireland (eg not understanding its a separate country!) that are more worthy of concern than erroneously calling it Southern Ireland to differentiate. Given both Northern Ireland and Ireland are on the island of Ireland I think it’s understandable (if legally incorrect) that the tendency is to use a different name to make it clear which part they’re talking about. Eg if someone said they were going to Ireland, you couldn’t be certain that they were talking about ROI as Belfast is also in Ireland (the island), and many northerners might saying they were flying back to Ireland when they mean NI.

We have to agree to disagree so. If I were to say southern Ireland it would mean Cork, it wouldn't make sense to anyone to describe Dublin or Galway as such.

Oh I wouldn’t use Southern Ireland either! But we might say the South. I don’t know what people in Tyrone say when they’re going to Donegal though (probably just Donegal). I don’t think it’s equivalent to certain people getting offended if you call them Irish though. Would you be more annoyed at someone telling you were in fact British, not Irish, or someone calling Ireland Southern Ireland?

Honestly it wouldn't bother me, I have been mistaken as British in the past. I remember been in America many years ago and been asked where I was from, when I told him i was from Ireland he asked me was that in Southern England. I just laughed and explained no. I can understand you saying down South, I just find southern Ireland weird it's like dumping an entire country into one pile. It doesn't offend me but it does me want to correct the person saying it as it sounds so wrong to me.

I think it would be odd for residents of NI to say they were going to Ireland on holidays if they were planning a trip to Mayo or something... But I think other people shouldn't use Southern Ireland as if it had capitals and was the name of the country when it isn't.

Residents of the 26 counties (see what I did there) refer to NI as The North, with a capital T. Which isn't an official name either. I mean in conversation... Just as likely to say Newry or Belfast or Enniskillen. I don't think you'd get anybody saying Londonderry though...

I think RoI is acceptable to differentiate - but only in a case where it's not clear -because that's the official description (not official name). If someone asked me where I was from I would just say Ireland or I'm Irish (happened yesterday funnily enough as they thought I was Polish) - I don't think I'd ever say the republic or the south unless someone asked me specifically if I was from NI or the north of Ireland. I don't know what people from Donegal say...

I don't know what people think when they hear 'Ireland' - unfortunately to me it means the 26 counties first rather than the island. (If I visualise Ireland in my head I get a map with the border on it, not the island.) This doesn't seem right or inclusive to me and it makes me sad that I somehow differentiate in my head between Irish people in Derry and Irish people in Kerry when I shouldn't...

The whole thing is fucked up.

That’s funny, when I hear Ireland I definitely see the whole island in my head! It seems so strange to me that you would see it with a bit cut off... do other people from ROI on this thread visualise it like that?