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Brexit

Westministenders: A Pickling Summer

983 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/07/2018 22:55

May has survived. The Turd Way has survived.

Whether this is true is another matter. The Turd Way was hijacked by the ERG who ripped it up and turned it from being a starting point to another ridiculous declaration of believing in Royal Unicorns. Rees-Smug has declared May LINO (Leader in Name Only) in tribute to BINO (Brexit in Name Only).

No one yet has grasped the consequences for NI. The backstop was absent from the White Paper except to say, it would never be used.

Johnson also in his commons resignation statement lives in a fantasy land, saying we had 2 and half years to get something in place for the Irish border. Except we don't because we don't have an agreed plan, we haven't hired the people to do it, there is no guarentee the way we are going that we will get a transition agreement agreed to afterall; its entirely dependent on us meeting certain criteria.

Even the Irish themselves haven't got to the point of admitting the possibility that there will be an Irish Border. Under WTO rules, members are legally required to secure their borders. If we are separate members to the EU we have to secure our border and they have to secure their border. In theory NI could be a separate member to the rest of the UK but this would breech the priniciple of a border in the Irish Sea.

No Deal has moved from being an option to being a distinct possibility.

The Trade Bill passed through the Commons unscathed with a dodgy pairing, the assistance of Labour rebels and the brewery tour organising skills of the LD and Labour whips despite the best efforts of Tory Rebels. It suggests the ERG have the numbers to force things but there still are no guarentees of anything.

We've had calls from Justine Greening for another referendum; despite it being obvious that the laws on referendums being ridiculously weak and just about everyone ignoring the findings of the electoral commision and the Leave Campaign's referal to the police. Even then the maximum penalties are wholly inadequate to prevent and deter electoral rigging.

We've had calls for a cross party government of National Unity. Which has been dismissed by Corbyn as an attempt at an establishment stitch up.

We've had the former Head of DexEu (the department who have refused the most FOI requests) and various ERG backbenchers (who said that publication of documents would damage the governments negotiations) ask for transparency and for draft DexEu documents to be published.

Ian Paisley Jr appears likely to be suspended from sitting in the HoC from 4th September for a month for breeching parliamentary standards, losing May one vital vote. She has however been bolstered by the resignation of John Woodcock from the Labour Party pledging his ongoing support of Brexit (he's been a Labour Rebel in the past). Plus there is the O'Mara Factor whereby the whole country could be at the mercy of whether Jared can be fucked to turn up to work at all or not.

There are growing signs out there for increasing support for EEA though despite it all.

The Trade Bill now goes to the Lords, where there is suggestion they might throw it out, after the Speaker declared they had the power to do so as it was a Supply Bill rather than a Money Bill thanks to the Amendments the ERG supplied.

All the while jobs are lost and companies are abandoning the UK and NI has had the most violence in years, but no one cares because Brexit means Brexit and its all worth it.

And finally, when being questioned by the Liason Select Committee, May said that 70 Technical Notices for Households and Businesses in the Event of No Deal would be published in August and September.

The country is in a total pickle.

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Mrsr8 · 22/07/2018 09:00

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ChardonnaysPrettySister · 22/07/2018 09:03

Honestly, now can we let JRM dictate?

I must be naive, but I really cannot comprehend the whole thing.
We are sliding towards disaster, we all know it, but JRM and some ministers must be appeased and get their way?

CaptainBrickbeard · 22/07/2018 09:06

My MP is a hard Brexiteer. I don’t understand her position. She has written in the Daily Mail that the economic downturn will be worth it to maintain the ‘respect and dignity’ of the 17.4 million Leave voters. I can’t understand how we are in a position where an MP is openly stating that she wants life to be worse for her own constituents and is being applauded for this (by lunatics on her Twitter feed). My area voted strongly to Leave so I can see why she is pushing Leave, but why the hard Brexit that will cause catastrophe? 17.4 million people did not vote for disaster.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 22/07/2018 09:08

I don't want respect and dignity. Grin

I want my meds and eye contacts and to be able to take the dogs with me on a holiday.

CaptainBrickbeard · 22/07/2018 09:13

Exactly, Chardonnay. It’s all woolly appeals to emotion, rather than engaging with reality.

annandale · 22/07/2018 09:17

My MP in 2016 wasn't a Leaver. She was a Remainer. Her constituency voted 70% for Remain. She voted to trigger Article 50 WITHOUT MAKING A FUCKING STATEMENT IN PARLIAMENT ABOUT IT. Fucking fucking fuckwit. It is a representative democracy so we DESERVED to have our viewpoint explained in parliament, our reasons for voting Remain made clear and her reasons for voting for A50, before she trooped through the lobby as a May yes woman. One of the reasons representative democracy is being denigrated is that the representative part is not being taken seriously enough. I don't ask that my MP simply reproduces some kind of Twitter consensus from her constituents, I am happy that MPs make their own judgments. But where they are directly contradicting the clear views of their constituents, they should have the damn respect to explain themselves, and not just by a paragraph of 'unicorns for everyone!' on their website. She should have been doing nonstop public meetings to persuade us of the value of what she was doing.

I can't help but be grateful for the 2017 car crash election just for the chance to defenestrate her.

Quietrebel · 22/07/2018 09:20

Bannon is pure poison.
He will not stop until he's fully dragged us back to the 40s.

TheElementsSong · 22/07/2018 09:23

It’s all woolly appeals to emotion, rather than engaging with reality.

Funny thing is, right now the main emotion seems to be Anger. It's hardly surprising that Remainers are upset and angry at the snowballing car-crash, but it's weird how furious the Leavers are around here. Even when they're professing "joy" it seems to be pleasure that their perceived enemies are unhappy, rather than happiness related to the imminent delights of the Sunlit Unicorns.

Peregrina · 22/07/2018 09:24

annandale, my ex-Tory MP was exactly the same. The 2017 election was a bonus, when we did defenestrate her. It all took her by surprise - she suddenly started bleating that she had voted Remain, conveniently forgetting how many times she had sung from May's hymn sheet.

DGRossetti · 22/07/2018 09:25

She has written in the Daily Mail that the economic downturn will be worth it to maintain the ‘respect and dignity’ of the 17.4 million Leave voters.

Sunk costs fallacy ?

CaptainBrickbeard · 22/07/2018 09:31

TheElements well, they’ve done Denial what with all the ‘we won, get over it, bring on the unicorns’. They’ve had a half hearted go at Bargaining based mainly on ‘give us everything we want because we are amazing’ so Anger is a natural next step as they start to realise that Brexit is a really stupid idea. I guess we have Depression still to come and my fingers are crossed that Acceptance of the fact that Brexit cannot be allowed to happen as it will destroy the country will come about sooner rather than later.

DGRossetti · 22/07/2018 09:36

He will not stop until he's fully dragged us back to the 40s.

the 1340s, that is.

We are sleepwalking back into feudalism.

RedToothBrush · 22/07/2018 09:44

Uptopian politics feast upon senses of injustice and misery. They offer an idealism version of the world as an escape from reality. This is why it is so hard to smash through. People do not want to live in the real world, these ideas are a way of escaping that. Brexit has become religious in this sense and no amount of realism is likely to cut through as a result. You have nothing to offer in terms of alternative hopes and dreams because the importance of the ability to deliver them is fundamentally puts you at a disadvantage.

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SingingBabooshkaBadly · 22/07/2018 09:49

I’ve lurked on these threads for sometime but never posted. I’m always playing catch-up as they move so fast.

Like so many (all?) of the posters here I’m in a state of dispair and disbelief that this can be happening and that the government, who should be supposed acting in our interests, is totally unnecessarily dragging us ever closer to that fatal cliff edge.

The rabid anger is leavers is scary stuff. I suppose they have an awful lot of messengers to shoot don’t they?

Interested to know what everyone thinks of Cable’s meeting to discuss the formation of an anti-Brexit centrist party. Haven’t been able to understand why this hasn’t happened before now.

Or has it even happened? Has he just had to think of what sounds like the most acceptable excuse he can for missing a vital Commons vote? 🤔

Sarahlou63 · 22/07/2018 09:50

John Major on the Andrew Marr show. Excellent.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 22/07/2018 09:52

Interested to know what everyone thinks of Cable’s meeting to discuss the formation of an anti-Brexit centrist party. Haven’t been able to understand why this hasn’t happened before now.

I don't know of that, but TBH I would think more of it had Vince Cable and Tim Farron actually bothered to turn up for the recent voting in Parliament.

frankiestein401 · 22/07/2018 09:53

re tide turning and stubborn polls - would it be in the interests of the brexit backing moneymen to fix the polls? - if so what might indicate this and how would it be detected.

Mistigri · 22/07/2018 09:55

Interested to know what everyone thinks of Cable’s meeting to discuss the formation of an anti-Brexit centrist party. Haven’t been able to understand why this hasn’t happened before now.

The SDP (remember them?) is why it hasn't happened, and probably won't. The UK system makes it virtually impossible for a third party to break through. My own view is that a third party could only make that breakthrough if there was a simultaneous and irreconcilable split in both the Tory and Labour Party. That's not impossible I guess but there is still a lot of clear blue political water between "one nation" Tory remainers like Clarke, Grieve and Soubry and centre left Labour remainers like Cooper, Lammy and Umunna. Very hard to see them in the same party even if they can make common cause over brexit.

EmilyAlice · 22/07/2018 09:59

Have people seen this excellent Will Hutton article in today's Observer on progressive parties in Europe?
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/22/progressives-britain-ape-spain-coalition-rule-pedro-sanchez

prettybird · 22/07/2018 10:04

Dominic Raab saying on the Marr Show saying that the UK will be prepared for a No Deal scenario ".....from the infrastructure to the planning rules"

Presumably that means emergency changes to planning rules to allow compulsory purchases and to overrule any objections to lorry parks? Hmm

Quietrebel · 22/07/2018 10:05

@DGR, yes feudalism seems right. I came across a chilling essay in that respect: Who Owns the Future by Jaron Lanier. It explains the dynamics at play in the digital revolution and how the old economic model is at risk. The gist of it is who owns big data servers will also ultimately own means of production, leaving only a handful of mega-rich, a smallish class of well off journeymen, and the rest will essentially be serfs.
I don't think brexit helps fight this trend at all.

As for Bannon (which autocorrect insists on calling gammon 😁) I think the end game here is to fully break up the EU and pit individual countries against each other. Both the US and the USSR did well out of the ashes last time...

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 22/07/2018 10:06

They will push Heathrow3 through because that will make Brexit a success. A huge success.

Yeah.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 22/07/2018 10:09

I don't know of that, but TBH I would think more of it had Vince Cable and Tim Farron actually bothered to turn up for the recent voting in Parliament.

Chardonnay- that’s the reason he’s given for not turning up to that vote. How hard would it have been to check his diary and say ‘oh, hang on, that time isn’t going to work for me’?

*Mistigri I do indeed remember the SDP. I do think there’s a large number of people for whom Brexit would create a unifying voting position. A pity the process wasn’t started immediately after the referendum. Agree it’s hard to see the MPs you’ve mentioned in one party. I’d vote for them though...

DGRossetti · 22/07/2018 10:19

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Westministenders: A Pickling Summer
RedToothBrush · 22/07/2018 10:19

Faisal Islam @ faisalislam
When asked by Marr about whether stories about plans to stockpile food for a “No Deal” were correct, Brexit Secretary Raab said it was an unhelpful “selective snippet that’s made it into the press”... which suggests Yes

To make case for Chequers, Government needs to emphasise, believe, & warn on the impact of hard Brexit on factories, companies, and people (eg stockpiling).

But then in trying to claim No Deal is an option it then simultaneously has to downplay all the same.

Not sustainable.

No shit

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