Still Not the Brexit Arms

[Bearbehind]

Gosh the old thread has been busy today!

Not got time to catch up just yet but putting this one here for later.

But hey a vote for Brexit was a vote against the 'Elites'

I just cannot believe that people are still thinking this is a good idea. They want to keep the control in the hands of Westmisnster, the same Westminster that puts any investment fund available into the South East rather than shared across the whole of the UK. They don't want to give any control to the EU, who funded project evenly across the UK, in the places where it was needed. I was always a Labour voter, but I did like the call by George Osborne for the Northern Power House, which the present lot seem to have put on the back burner. The chaos in the train service providers was across the country, but the North was left to one side whilst they fixed the South eastern problem. These are the same people who the Brexiteers want to keep control; South East obsessed governments. J Rees Mogg states it could be 50 years until we see any benefit, but who can really see what will happen in that time frame, with trade wars being the real threat at the moment. This is really Chaos, on an epic scale, and J Rees Mogg is making guess-work to cover himself. Twat.

Taking a wider view of the world 'today' you could almost view 'Brexit' as a bit of a sideshow. Obviously significant for the UK but compared to the commencement of trade wars and the continual and increasing threat from terrorism Brexit is not a 'big deal'.
It is certainly not a good time for the UK to cast itself into the wilderness. By dropping all the benefits of being part of the EU the UK instantly becomes a very small 'fish' in a sea full of sharks.

It's all now in the hands of parliament, they can if they want stop Brexit and face the consequences , or leave with what is looking like a no deal and face the consequences, or carry on with this white paper ( which we can all agree is rubbish ) and face the consequences.
There is nothing new that has materialised in the last two years that parliament would not of known before.
There is nothing the same old people moaning to a very limited audience is going to achieve.
Better go just heard the grammar police coming, nothing better to do than pick on person who had to drop out of full time education at 14, due to constantly moving care homes and since been diagnosed with Dyslexia and learning difficulties, Bullies just like the EU

There is nothing the same old people moaning to a very limited audience is going to achieve

Hang on, the people who are going to achieve nothing, are the very same people who you said were somehow using their time and energy dragging Brexit down, and the very same people you were exhorting to instead make sacrifices and use their time and effort to making it successful?

Taking a wider view of the world 'today' you could almost view 'Brexit' as a bit of a sideshow.

No one in Europe is talking about it. Just checked a French news website and not a mention of Brexit in over 20 stories. And one of those was horoscopes

Nothing in Italian either. Closest is a dispute between Italy and Austria over South Tyrol citizens ?

And for those who saw the Barnier statement on Friday, the fact the room was almost empty should be a sign that not one in the EU gives a rats arse about Brexit. (Leading to my theory that Brexit and Trump are merely the political equivalent of having a tantrum in Sainsburys whilst the grown ups carry on around you). And why should they ? They've trusted to the mechanisms of the EU which have appointed a negotiating team they have full confidence in. Possibly more confidence than they had last year, since it seems the UK has got rattled and is trying to go around them. With laughably translated documents that (as one Facebook friend) seemed to make more sense the more they were translated from English.

Agreed, in a world that is fast moving to be a sea of tariffs from trade wars, the safest place in in a trading bloc that has free trading for maybe about any product we would need.
I work in the mining industry, covering Europe, Russia and Africa for an American company. We sell steel replacement parts that are caste in China, send to the US for expert, very low tolerance finishing, then exported to my markets. Because of the tariffs imposed by Trump, the cast items from China are now 25% more expensive for my American company to import. In retaliation, the EU, Russia and China imposed the same tariffs in return. So, now I have a problem where although my company are sucking up some of the costs with reduced margins, I am still trying to offer products that are 35% over the price before tariffs, in a very price conscious market. This will likely see me out of a job, unless we can do some trading straight from China, which our company would rather not do, being a manufacturer rather than a trader. This is what happens in the world of trade wars. This is what the UK will be slipping into. It's said that the North East will see a reduction in it's wealth by 17%, so all the hard work they have done in the last decade, thrown to the wind. But, strangely, they voted for that. Do you think they do not deserve a second vote now, knowing the truth of what will happen to them?

It's all now in the hands of parliament, they can if they want stop Brexit and face the consequences , or leave with what is looking like a no deal and face the consequences, or carry on with this white paper ( which we can all agree is rubbish ) and face the consequences.

Problem is Rosstac the people who's hands its in , won't actually suffer the consequences, it will be you and me and our families and friends who will suffer the consequences.

frumpety I mean more there political consequences, my local MP is is not a rich person and would loss their seat at the next election and there are many like him, not all Mps are from wealthy back grounds.

DGRossetti It is properly like me and everybody else just expects it not to happen,

You are correct Rosstac that not all MP's are from wealthy backgrounds, there are still some people I believe who went into politics for genuine reasons, to try and make a positive difference to the lives of their constituents. Brexit will not do that. Slowly but surely those people are starting to realise that the protection offered by the phrase 'the will of the people' is starting to diminish, they are going to be held accountable for the consequences, regardless of whether they voted for this mess or not.

I agree, Rosstac, many MP's do it to feel like they are doing something for the people, for the big picture. I actually think Rees Mogg does too, but his bigger picture doesn't have the same focus as others.
Others in the thread are also right that no one else EUROPE care particularly about the Brexit. I live in the Netherlands, no one's the least bit interested. It's true that the financial implications are also bad for the countries in the EU, but it's spread out between 450 million people rather than 65 million. If a supplier based in the EU into the UK suddenly finds an extra 15 or 20% tariff added through WTO rules, they can more easily find another customer in the EU so reducing the impact than the UK companies can find in the UK. Similarly, a customer of UK suppliers can more easily find an alternative supplier for products in the EU than UK customers can do of EU suppliers. The logic of far greater numbers. By the way, Rosstac, your spelling's not that bad!

The SPAG of many Brexists leaves a lot to be desired and can make their posts difficult to understand but pointing out their errors achieves nothing; it just allows them to run away, screaming “BULLIES” (or bully’s?) over their shoulders.

The SPAG of many Brexists leaves a lot to be desired and can make their posts difficult to understand but pointing out their errors achieves nothing; it just allows them to run away, screaming “BULLIES” (or bully’s?) over their shoulders.

Because "knowing stuff" is elitist ?

The internet isn't really the place to start willy-waving about SPAG. Quite aside from the fire-and-forget nature if it, you have things like autocorrect to get in the way. Plus you can't be sure the poster is writing in their native tongue. Good as my French and Italian are, I am grateful native speakers grant me a leeway in accents and grammar, so I try to pay it forward.

On the other hand woe betide you if you send me a cv with a misplaced comma, where you boast about your "attention to detail". (I don't give a shit if you can or can't spell. I do give a shit that you didn't bother - or know - to press "F7" before you submitted the most important document in your professional career).

And there's the ever-present spectre of Muphrys law

Anyway, I suspect rosstac is faux-ing it, or whatever the typed equivalent of mockney is

I don't think Rosstac is cockney. When I read her comments, they sound like she's from Derby/Notts, or at least that's the accent in my head when I read her stuff. I'm probably way off, but it comes from using 'are' instead of 'our'.

It's all now in the hands of parliament, they can if they want stop Brexit and face the consequences

I don't agree, sometimes events take on a force of their own and become unstoppable. I doubt whether the current crop of MPs, of any party, can do much now. Perhaps that is too pessimistic - I think a Goverment of National Unity could at least stay the process, until some decent research is done.

Anyone in Europe directly interfacing with the UK is concerned and has had to act. Fortunately the shoulders of the EU seem to be broad enough to weather the irritation that is Brexit so for the preparations that ports, airports etc and presumably some industries that will face significant hardship there is a 'fund' (Mr Junker said over a Trillion Euros was 'available') but it will place some debt on all of Europe. If individual countries in the EU were to eventually reveal what the cost to the 'locals' it may well colour their attitude to the British.
Regarding WTO trading rules, someone posted a link to the WTO reports a few weeks back and it shows (among many other things) how relatively insignificant the UK is and that there are so many trade links between various groups of countries. Roughly speaking the EU is a significant player and that the UK is a 'hanger on' of the EU and where Germany produces around twice the amount compared to the UK. The concept of the UK 'muscling in' on other well established trade agreements because we are the great 'I am' is completely ridiculous. That ship sailed and sank a long time ago.

I wasn't suggesting rosstac (whose gender I haven't discerned, so they remain a "they" ....) was from London.

I was suggesting that their style is an affected one, and that they are actually quite capable of clearer posting. Like actors who in reality have cut-glass accents, but choose to sound a bit more "street".

With the caveat this is the internet, not real life ...

the preparations that ports, airports etc and presumably some industries that will face significant hardship there is a 'fund'

Which the UK will eventually pay for.

Talk Fair point and like I said, I rarely do it but the idea that I should willingly make human sacrifices of my children made me just lose it.
I see the ability to admit that you were wrong about something and change your mind as a strength rather than a weakness.
There was absolutely no plan in place for what would happen in the event of Leave winning. Zilch.
I’ve said this before but it has now become gospel that Leavers always said that things would be difficult for a while/10 years/50 years. I don’t remember the Leave campaign saying that.
Gove said that the day after Brexit, we would we would be inundated with countries clamouring to make trade deals with us and Liam Fox said that the negotiations with the EU would be the easiest in history and could be done in an afternoon.
It’s 25 months today since the Referendum and, from where I’m sitting, we’re no further forward.
I don’t believe that any Leave voter saw things turning out like this when they put their cross in the box.

DGR, I agree, it's unfortunate but the UK will eventually be the major loser and end up paying the price. I, as a remainer, would have loved to have read over the last year or so, news of great deals we can make, and the optimistic future available to us after brexit. I really am hoping for the best. i Richard Branson all of a sudden tells us that on the back of Brexit, he'll be setting on 30,000 new staff, and if the bank of England said they expected growth of 5% on the back of Brexit, and Elon Musk said he needed to build one of his tunnels to the UK to trade with this great opportunity that is the UK, then great, I will be the first to agree that I was wrong and I'd be glad for it. But, that is not where we are. We are on the edge of a precipice, about to drop into the unknown, and not a single Bexiteer on here says, 'well, I might change my attitude considering what the experts are predicting'.

Rosstac, my son is dyslexic. I have witnessed first hand how inadequate provisions in education are. I would be the last to sneer at spelling mistakes. I think though that the EU in that respect is much more supportive of you than the UK historically. I refer you to Directive 2000/78/EC which prohibits discrimination on grounds of disability in employment. It requires employers to provide 'reasonable accommodation ' for people with disabilities, which means that disabled people have a right to request appropriate adaptations at the workplace in order to carry out their job. This includes dyslexia.
Trust me, the EU is not your enemy in that respect.

In fact, it isn't your enemy AT ALL!!

{ Liam Fox said that the negotiations with the EU would be the easiest in history and could be done in an afternoon.}
So why hadn't they already been doing these 'good deals' while part of the EU. It would at least have provided a framework for some 'horsetrading' to get a better deal for some things at a bit of a loss to something else that may not be quite as important.
From what I remember from previous posts the UK (Cameron) had been attempting some deals with the EU and had achieved around 3/4 of his 'goal' which was deemed unsatisfactory by the Cons party, hence the start of these whole capers.

54321, the problem with Camerons trials to get better deals would always be deemed unsatisfactory because (and this is according to John Major on Sunday), the Tory party have always had a large minority (if that makes sense), that are anti-EU. Thatcher was one of those. She sowed the seeds of what we have now. She made a great deal of shouting No! No! No! to the other countries of the EU, rather than looking at the obvious better side to dealing with (and within) the EU. The voting public loved it (we love beating the Germans!), whilst the other leaders just happily got along with what they were doing. The anti- EU MP's (no longer only Tories) of today want to just continue with this rhetoric. I wish half of those Brexiteers could life in the average continental European community for a while to see it's not that different than the UK, and certainly not backwards.