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Brexit

Westministenders: May's Turd Way covered in Donald's Glittery Tickertape from his Parade

984 replies

RedToothBrush · 10/07/2018 17:29

Where next?

Auditions for chief turd polisher to Mrs May are in full action, whilst those who don't believe in the turd, wade about knee deep in their own shit, still searching for that illusive plan for Brexit which doesn't stink to high heaven of crap.

After the dual resignation of Davis and Johnson, amongst the stench there is an air of uncertainity and expectation of all hell breaking loose.

In the last 48 hours we have been told that

  1. May is more secure having crushed the brexiteers,
  2. May about to be ousted by a no confidence vote, triggering a leadership election,
  3. The Tory Party are about to split,
  4. Brexiteers are in disarray fighting amongst themselves,
  5. We will remain in the EU,
  6. We get an EEA deal,
  7. We will get no deal,
  8. A People's vote is inevitable and
  9. There will be a General Election.

Which only serves to merely highlight just how little of a clue ANYONE has about what happens next.

What bothers me now, is that Johnson seems not to have surfaced yet and there are rumours that Gove has gone to ground, whilst Donald Trump is practically on the plane and is stirring the pot praising Johnson.

Instead we seem to have a series of junior ministers and Tory HQ figures quitting in a long drawn out coordinated toy throwing out of the pram exercise, to try and get what hard brexiteers want.

If I had to hazard a guess at the general silence from key figures, I might be tempted to say that someone is going to use Trump's visit to throw a political grenade and actively invite him to endorse them.

That might sound ridiculous given that the public hates Trump, but that loses sight of the fact that the people who will vote for the next leader of the Tory Party are overwhelming authoritarian leaning and likely to be those who like Trump and would be impressed by such a move.

I note this tweet today from the wise Sarah Kendzior:

Sarah Kendzior @sarahkendzior
"There are parallels to past authoritarianism, but what's happening with Trump, in the digital age, is new and transnational. The president's loyalty is not necessarily to a state but to foreign leaders and multinational criminal alliances. The state is just something to sell."

It is clear that others in the parliamentary party will be very alarmed at the prospect. There were Tory MPs who were openly tweeted how please that disgusting Johnson had gone and are no fans of Trump.

May still seems to think that she can get her plan through and approved by the EU in its current form. The White Paper is due on Thursday.

Much speculation is that it will be significant if she fails to produce this on time, as she will have capitulated to the Brexiteers. And this will lead to the EU just giving up on us anyway.

She also announced to the Cabinet today, that preparations for No Deal were to be stepped up significantly.

We still are left wondering who, she is stitching up; the Brexiteers whose heads are currently exploding or the friends she keeps closest to her (friends? or ideological enemies).

The problem is that there just no other viable way forward at the moment, as the country is divided, both Labour and the Conservatives are divided and are more interested in their own future than that of the party and there are far too many ambitious 'celebrity MPs' who want to make their mark. No one gives a shit about ordinary workers or business. Plus there is the divine observation that DGRossetti made at the end of the last thread: The biggest obstacle to Brexit has been Brexiteers

The grab for post-Brexit power shows the whole of Westminister up as the cess pit of self interest it is, with Boris Johnson merely its biggest figure head.

Wait until the GFA officially has its head put on the chopping block awaiting its fate. Perhaps we can flog NI to Donald and get a Brexit Dividend afterall.

I must admit to finding it hard to have a view that is altogether different to this:
James Patrick @J_amesp
There is no way back from all of this. The next seven days simply decide how badly - on a scale of fucked to smouldering crater - it is going to end.

One final predictation, which I am DAMN certain of: Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday are all going to be grim for political watching if you are into democratic values and principles. It will be a 4 day sales pitch for Brand Trump in all its All American Overblown Horror that Brits tend to find utterly distasteful. Expect the red carpet of full of turd glitter to be rolled out for Donald Trump Show. Expect May to embarass herself in her fawning all over him, as if she's star struck. Expect that hideously cringeworthy photo thats totally inevitable.

Politics is going to get worse. It may never get better.

(But yay football gets to cover it all up... Come on England!)

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TheElementsSong · 12/07/2018 07:17

Just point to the level of discussion around the interwebs

It's quite astounding that, over 2 years since the referendum, and with mere months to go to their beloved Independence Day, all we are getting from Leavers is still only lies bluster, empty slogans and flailing around to blame everybody else.

lonelyplanetmum · 12/07/2018 07:37

all we are getting from Leavers is still only* lies bluster, empty slogans and flailing around to blame everybody else.*

The Guardian piece posted yesterday nailed it succinctly.

"Before the Brexit vote and since, the Brexiters have never put forward a detailed plan of their own. ....They don’t do plans. They only do fantasy. They spun a fantasy of takeover by Brussels; now they spin a fantasy of liberation from it. They have held our country, its politics, its press and its shared life hostage to their lazy second-rate dreariness for too long. It is time to take the fight to them."

It is time to take the fight to them but after two years we are still flailing around for a leader of the fight too.

It's all very well to criticise Brexiteers for lack of a plan.

However where is our Remainers' proper plan to fight to stay in, and who is leading it. Vince Cable's motion for a people's vote and a government of unity was resoundingly defeated by 299 votes to 13 on Tuesday.

SusanWalker · 12/07/2018 07:48

Conversation
Andrew Adonis
Andrew Adonis
@Andrew_Adonis
Word from Brussels is that they will engage in polite conversations with Mrs May’s people over the summer, ‘so we aren’t blamed for her failing or falling.’ But, I’m told, ‘this facilitated customs arrangement is what I think you call a half-baked dog’s breakfast’

54321go · 12/07/2018 07:49

I would vote to remain headed by @ RTB and BCF, at least they understand the question and have put forward multiple solutions.
N0 0ne with 'authority' has yet got the magnitude of this folly into the heads of 'average Briton'.

BrexitWife · 12/07/2018 07:53

It is time to take the fight to them
Maybe a bit late for that?? I mean we have a mere few weeks (months?) left to give an acceptable proposal to the EU. We are heading to a No deal situation by default (because we don’t seem to be able to propose ANY plan at all).
And some people are waking up now to the idea that we need to fight them Hmm

The fight should have happened just AFTER the referendum, instead of accepting that anyone raising concern was a traitor.
The fight should have happened with the Brexit bill.

The whole political class looks like a teenager who has left it too late to do their homework and is putting something together in a panic hoping it will very vaguely get a pass mark.

SusanWalker · 12/07/2018 08:11

John Redwood has posted this. I have been reading the replies and have yet to find any supportive ones. They are all pointing out the nonsense of it all.

Conversation
John Redwood
John Redwood
@johnredwood
·
22h
The one good thing to come out of Chequers was that the Govt will speed & complete its preparations for leaving the EU w/o a deal. It's important to put some weight behind the UK’s bargaining position. Only if the Govt is prepared to exercise the No Deal option do we have clout.
John Redwood
John Redwood
@johnredwood
·
21h
The biggest win from No Deal is the opportunity to spend £39 billion at home on our own priorities that we would otherwise give away to the EU.
John Redwood
John Redwood
@johnredwood
·
21h
The next win from just leaving will be the right to control our own borders and settle our own migration policy. We need to alleviate some of the stresses on housing and infrastructure which high migration rates in recent years have exacerbated.
John Redwood
John Redwood
@johnredwood
·
21h
The third win will be in global trade. Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Canada and the USA are keen to sign trade deals with us. To do such deals we need to be free to make our own calls on regulation, tariffs and non tariff barriers.
John Redwood
John Redwood
@johnredwood
The fourth and biggest win of all is we will re establish our home democracy. Our laws will be made in the UK, and can be repealed or improved by Parliaments we elect and influence. The UK will regain her vote and voice in a number of world bodies, including the WTO.

RedToothBrush · 12/07/2018 08:25

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
10pm update

Exclusive YouGov poll
- Labour in lead
- Public turning sharply again May
Chequers deal; leavers says doesn’t respect referendum
- Jump in numbers saying May shd quit now

Sometimes poll stories don’t matter but if sustained, this serious

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BigChocFrenzy · 12/07/2018 08:27

Redwood has so much faith in the advantages of Brexit …
that many months ago he advised his investors to move their money out of the UK - and presumably did the same himself

All these rich Brexiters have assets and / or bolt-holes outside the UK
Redwood, JRM, Lawson …

The hedge-funders are openly betting on Uk industry share values falling and that of Germany & France rising
Some are hedging Sterling again, after their huge win when it plunged after the EU Ref results

RedToothBrush · 12/07/2018 08:28

Tom Newton Dunn @ tnewtondunn
Dominic Raab: “We will take back control of our immigration policy. Some of that will be subject to negotiation, of course”. This is the inherent contradiction that the Govt will always struggle with. @BBCr4today

We will take back control. We apart from the bits we have to give up in return for international cooperation.

Duh!

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Peregrina · 12/07/2018 08:30

I was sorry to see the England team lose, but what an example to us - they worked hard, played well (most of the time) and co-operated with each other, with a thoughtful considerate manager.

Contrast that with our Politicians, who are fighting like rats in a sack and are a thorough disgrace. Grease-smug is now talking about not having the NI/RoI backstop enshrined in law, and thus throwing away the GFA. I must admit, his stance baffles me somewhat, doesn't he remember that his Catholicism comes via way of Ireland?

BigChocFrenzy · 12/07/2018 08:30

That's been May's logic all along:

Remainers can't stand her
If she loses even a significant minority of Leavers, then she & the party are toast next GE

… or toast for the next generation if they can't blame someone else for a Brexit crash

lonelyplanetmum · 12/07/2018 08:30

Why is John Redwood even a thing? He who wants us all to eat (non existent) cake and buy from British-owned car manufacturers which incidentally are only Morgans, Caterhams and McLarens.

RedToothBrush · 12/07/2018 08:33

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/11/central-europe-lesson-liberals-anti-nationalist-yugoslavia-poland-hungary?__twitter_impression=true
Central Europe is a lesson to liberals: don’t be anti-nationalist

Good reflective article

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RedToothBrush · 12/07/2018 08:35

I was sorry to see the England team lose, but what an example to us - they worked hard, played well (most of the time) and co-operated with each other, with a thoughtful considerate manager.

Wasn't it just.

It was nice to do well. It was nice to dream. But I'm happy with the result too on a few different levels. It was needed in its own way.

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BigChocFrenzy · 12/07/2018 08:35

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/yougov-poll-labour-edges-into-lead-with-voters-losing-faith-in-pm-theresa-may-2n7cwfhtn

Labour has taken a two-point lead over the Tories
in the first indication that the row over Theresa May’s Chequers compromise has damaged the party

"After days of briefing, resignations and infighting, the Conservatives now trail Labour for the first time since March, according to the latest YouGov opinion poll.

It puts Labour on 39 per cent, which is unchanged since the weekend, and the Tories on 37 per cent, which is down two points, with the Lib Dems on 9 per cent.

This is significant because the Tories consistently enjoyed leads of four to five points through parts of March as well as April, May and June. The poll of 1,732 British adults was taken on Tuesday and Wednesday."

Oh, very interesting that Remain Tories are more supportive of May than Leave Tories:

Westministenders: May's Turd Way covered in Donald's Glittery Tickertape from his Parade
BigChocFrenzy · 12/07/2018 08:37

The Remain / Leave Tory chart was before DD's resignation
Leavers are probably crosser with her now

RedToothBrush · 12/07/2018 08:38

Jesse Lingard @ jesselingard
Was an honour to represent my country at the world cup. The squad we have is a great bunch of lads who are willing to learn and give everything and we can hold our heads high. Thank you to everyone who supported our journey 👏🏾 we dont stop here! ⬆ #ThreeLions 🦁🦁🦁

What a nice, graceful and positive tweet. Which focuses on the need to learn.

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54321go · 12/07/2018 08:38

They are playing 'russian roulette' with a bullet in every chamber!

TheElementsSong · 12/07/2018 08:40

I see yet another freaking genius has popped up on the other AIBU thread with the over-and-over-debunked Millennium Bug lie.

DGRossetti · 12/07/2018 08:41

I was sorry to see the England team lose, but what an example to us

Just caught something on R4, where a guest was pointing out that the surge of pride we've seen for England is a total vindication of todays society, from which there is no going back.

Chatting to a friend who travels a bit around the UK, and they noted in the last week England flags in the oddest places ... places where once the only sight of an England flag would have been in a march.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/07/2018 08:59

Matt Chorley:

"A damning new YouGov poll for The Times shows that 75 per cent think that Theresa May is making a mess of it,
the highest it has ever been.

It has jumped from 66 per cent at the weekend, a nine-point shift, which is not normal in two days.
< I wonder wha happened the last few days HmmGrin>

Only 13 per cent of people think the government is handling Brexit well.

To put that into context, that's about the same proportion of people who told YouGov this week that they often spill food and drink down themselves when eating and drinking. GrinGrin

Peregrina · 12/07/2018 08:59

For those who think ripping up the GFA is a workable idea to salvage their hard Brexit: violence in NI

Somerville · 12/07/2018 09:12

I've been paralysed with fear over the violence, because my teenager has been visiting relatives over there, and having been raised in England she doesn't have enough sense of how to keep herself safe.
She thought I was overreacting to insist she came home by yesterday morning, until a cousin drove her past a bonfire on the way to the airport. Proudly amblazoned across it... "KILL ALL TAIGS".
Anywhere else in this country that would be a hate crime, surely?
Anyway, sorry for the me-rail.

woman11017 · 12/07/2018 09:31

drove her past a bonfire on the way to the airport. Proudly amblazoned across it... "KILL ALL TAIGS
Flowers Somerville It's like the Ku Klux Klan. Shock Hope she's back safe. Sorry that children are having to experience this, after all the peace women and Mo Mowlam did.

the only sight of an England flag would have been in a march
EDL and orange lodge ones.

From that Krastev article:

Remember how nationalists and liberals were allies in the overthrow of communism in 1989

Nope, Levi Jeans and pop music did that. Sparkly capitalism and the courage and fatal naivety of Gorbachov.

People used to believe in religious cults too. Thankfully that's dispappearing the same way 'nationalism' has for anyone with half a brain.

The Yugoslav wars made it impossible for liberals to define liberalism as anything but anti-nationalism

Shock Yeah, pesky liberals against thugs murdering villages and killing thousands in detention camps. 'Nationalism' was the fake currency of the power mongers in Yugoslavia, it always is. Agreeing that it has a value, is part of the 'buy in' to what we have now.

Nationalism, like rampant sexism and racism are the calling cards of the extremists. The under thoughtful are easily persuaded they are in a tribe which doesn't exist.

I agree though, apparently in order to get power now, any western political party has to appear to support nationalism ( and sexism and racism).

That was sort of the point of the EU, to mitigate it.

The only actual ethno identities on this island are cultural and regional ones(dialect, religion, economic activity, class) the few empoverished shires remaining which actually support the 'brexit'. The place that up till now has supported the entire economy of the country, London, has no regional or national identification; economically and democratically successful societies normally don't.

RedToothBrush · 12/07/2018 09:32

Ah the wonderful 12th of July.

:(

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