Westministers: Operation Over The Cliff

[RedToothBrush]

Bit late and didn't realise the last thread was so close to the end... so this is a very quick OP

What do you think the secret continency plan name the government have in place for the No Deal?

Suggestions Please

The BBC headline has disappeared now, but earlier May was telling the EU that things needed to be speeded up.

I noticed that too. Of course the "message" is now the "fact" and braindead Brexiteers will be parroting how it's the EU that's holding everything up, whilst good old blighty has been working it's socks off. I can even imagine some banter about I thought the Germans were famed for their efficiency.

I'm here all week

Well done MrsRRR!
Looking at the BBC news coverage it is now so watered down with 'pro Brexit' the 'news' is becoming unwatchable.
The negative 'spin' on the monster discussion overnight of migrants. OK there is still a lot to be done and no doubt there will be many 'problems' but (albeit rather late) it is a start. Meanwhile on 'project WTF??' the British government can't decide what it is doing in only 1 language (English) with only a small island (plus NI) to consider.
Even saying 'sorry brain fart, lets go back to how we were before the vote' won't work, The UK and a lot of Europe has spend many millions working on the UK leaving, is that all going to get 'written off'? Britain SHOULD be paying for the 'inconvenience' it has put the world through.

Did I miss the banner headlines saying that England had lost to Belgium yesterday? For a 'balanced view' that the BBC is supposed to have, that should have as much exposure as if England had won.

paler to your DF

mrsr for you! Congrats

Sadly I don't think things can go back to normal either way, now.

You'd be amazed how quickly things can get back to normal - after things far more disastrous than what we have already suffered, as well.
I visited the Sachsenhausen concentration camp a few years ago, and it was full of real life stories of survivors and what they did next. The most cruel and life altering 'experiments' had been perpetrated on them and yet they had just brushed themselves off and got on with brand new lives. There was no holding them back - and it was humbling to see.

We may have lost our standing on the world stage as a respected and sensible nation state for the foreseeable.

We may have a smaller GDP for a while. Growth may be slower, and we may cease to be the worlds 5th/6th largest economy. But those things don't actually matter on a personal level to the average joe on the street. They care about the small, everyday, mundane stuff. Which is why it it was so ridiculous to get us to vote on something so outwith our own experience in the first place. If Brexit is cancelled then - for almost every single person in the country - everyday life will resume as normal. And those who have already suffered will be able to move forward and will find other opportunities - as being in the EU will make those opportunities possible. In 2 or 3 years time this will all seem like a bad dream.

If brexit isn't cancelled, however ... the outlook is less rosy.

I don't know pretzels, I'm very worried about the US-Russia shenanigans, whether Brexit goes ahead or not.

At least during the Cold War there were two big boys butting heads that more or less cancelled each other out.

US and Russia against a weakened Europe? Yikes.

^You'd be amazed how quickly things can get back to normal - after things far more disastrous than what we have already suffered, as well.
I visited the Sachsenhausen concentration camp a few years ago, and it was full of real life stories of survivors and what they did next. The most cruel and life altering 'experiments' had been perpetrated on them and yet they had just brushed themselves off and got on with brand new lives. There was no holding them back - and it was humbling to see^

I am going to swear. Check your fucking privilege comrade.
I can assure you, from personal experience, that no race and no person recovers from this. Educate yourself.

Well we got over slavery and misogyny, didn't we ?

Well we got over slavery and misogyny,
You think Mengele experiments are funny? I worked with a woman who had been experimented on by Mengele.
It's one of the reasons for the Israeli Defence Force.

And if english people had either courage/ovaries or intelligence or both, they would be doing the same. But we are where we are.

I too have visited Sachsenhausen. Of those inmates that survived I doubt whether those people did just brush themselves off, although I imagine that they put on brave faces. I have just finished reading Eric Lomax's 'The Railwayman' about his experience of being a Japanese POW. On the face of it he carried on once he was released, but in practice it took him 50 years to come to terms with it. Yes, 50 years.

My Grandfather was in WW1 - he was lucky, he was a Royal Engineer, so not in the thick of the worst fighting. He could not bring himself to talk about his War experience until the very end of his life. A family friend was evacuated from Dunkirk - my DM always thought this experience scarred him and he died young.

The human spirit can be wonderful and hellish experiences can bring out the best in people, but who honestly wants to have to go through that?

I think that had the UK decided to leave say 30 or 35 years ago it would have been less painful. A LOT of things have changed drastically in these last years. OK things would have been rather different but the concept of global manufacturing was only getting into gear. The world has been relatively 'peaceful' over this period and the extreme terrorism with the likes of ISIS was largely contained.
So much will depend on how much 'big' manufacturing actually leave and possibly more importantly whether the UK Gov INVESTS in rebuilding existing and commencing new high value exportable goods.

I'm sorry I've upset you woman
I meant that the human spirit is indefatigable. The camp is full of testimonies of people rebuilding their lives and moving forwards (and not in a 'Nazi's weren't that bad sort of way - Germany treats their legacy of the war very seriously and respectfully. they don't hold back from the horror of what they did)... so much so that is awe inspiring, because it would seem that anybody should be broken by what they went through... and yet they persevered, they overcame. I don't mean in the camp - I mean later. When they left, they went on to lead normal lives. Their ability to do that is a triumph of the human spirit, it shows the Nazi's didn't and couldn't win. They didn't let it hold them back - I'm not saying it didn't stay with them - I'm saying they didn't let it defeat them. Their bravery in doing that is inspiring and should be celebrated.

I'm not downplaying the experience - I'm pointing out that is was so unimaginably awful and yet... they really did rebuild new lives.

And if people can do that after surviving a Nazi concentration camp... then we can all do that after a couple of embarrassing years and the economic downturn of the brexit madness. Normal service can resume - what is gone does not have to be lost forever.

[https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/29/chequers-dinner-could-end-in-on-the-brexit-express]
Has another journo been reading this thread? Wasn't the Agatha Christie link made here first?

Warburtons @Warburtons

To all Crumpet fans 💕❤️

Thank you for your support & love for one of our favourite products! As a result of the CO2 shortage, we are sadly unable to produce Crumpets at some of our bakeries, this will remain the case until CO2 supply levels return to normal.

The great CO2 shortage of 2018 is getting serious. First beer, now crumpets.

In this case, the EU really does need us more than we need them right now... (see the map)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44613652

pretzels Brexit isn’t just a blip in the road that we can all move on from in a couple of years. It’s a symptom of some deeply disturbing societal failures on a global scale.

It’s going to get worse before it gets better.

Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel
Four countries in North East Asia want bilateral free trade agreements with the UK after we leave the EU. They are:

China
Japan
South Korea
Taiwan

We already have a FTA with South Korea through the EU.
A FTA with Japan has been agreed through the EU and is its final stages of being completed.
Taiwan is officially part of China, not a separate country. And there might be a few reasons why a FTA with China, might not be the greatest of ideas... like intellectual copyright, production standards and ability to flood the UK market with cheap goods which UK producers can't compete with.

But yeah! Great news!

Oh no, not Warburton crumpets they are may fav (first world problem). Who'd have thought you need CO2 to make crumpets.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at 'the sleepover' am I the only one to find that expression juvenile and pathetic

If they stop making Ikea meatballs I'm taking to the fucking barricades.....😡😡😡

Brexit isn’t just a blip in the road that we can all move on from in a couple of years. It’s a symptom of some deeply disturbing societal failures on a global scale.

It’s going to get worse before it gets better.

I agree to a certain extent - but I don't think the fight is over yet, I don't think the irrevocable decisions have been made. We can't go back to where we were - that's gone. And where we end up will be different on account of the past two years. But that doesn't mean that disaster is inevitable.

For example - I don't actually believe that Trump will start a war that we will all get caught up in. And whether he leaves office in 2 years or 6, whatever comes next will probably be radically different in reaction to him and will attempt to reverse the harm. It can't undo it, of course - it can't turn back the clock - but it can reset to normal and move forward from there.

Brexit is the same, but potentially longer term. If we leave - I believe we will be seeking reentry in the next few decades. Massive economic harm will be done in the meantime, of course - and catching back up to the rest of the world will take longer yet. But eventually 'normal' will come back.
But we haven't left yet. The fight continues - and I think reversing brexit would be a big first step in turning the tide of the extreme rightwing policies that are sweeping across the globe.
I still believe that the tide can be turned and we can move forward - in Britain at least.

Crumpets? The bastards.

Has anyone seen Farage's latest stunt to get headlines however possible?

My all too recent experience of sleepovers is that when they go badly, everyone starts of friendly, dc eat and drink too much of the wrong stuff, they stay up too late, dc get upset with jokes that go wrong or not being in their own bed, the silliness escalates and parents have to be called in, sad dc returned home. When they go well pretty much the same thing happens but dc manage to stay in same room all night. Nothing about sleepovers that I have ever seen suggests they are a sensible way to try and run a country.

Ikea (Swedish) Meatballs are actually a Turkish recipe.
Normal is of course a gradually shifting baseline so you would need to stick 'pins' in moments of time and compare 'then' to 'now'.
Even the 'normal' that we had when we voted 2 years ago is gone. Things have 'slid' somewhat and if as was mentioned a bit earlier we examined how many small and medium businesses have altered their attitudes and practices, not taking on new staff, and so on we would see a difference.
The assertion a few posts back that Nazism 'couldn't win' may not be true. Mr Hitler's plans although exceedingly unpleasant were successful to begin with. One of his downfalls was that he got 'obsessed' and refused to listen to generals who suggested caution so overreached the army's capabilities.

Marina Hyde on Danny Dyer

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/29/england-danny-dyer-brexit-eu-deal