Westminstenders: Rebel or Reveal

[RedToothBrush]

The EU Withdrawal Bill made it through the Commons. Though May did not manage it unscathed.

In an attempt to divide and conquer the Rebels, May might have damaged trust. We shall find out. The Grieve Amendment faces the Lords. We also will see if the Lords will back down on their amendments or apply some new ones for the Commons to deal with in Parliamentary Ping Pong.

Aaron Banks has been exposed as being pally with the Russian Embassy in a plot twist that absolutely everyone saw coming.

Meanwhile the EU thinks we have already run out of time and is preparing options to extend talks beyond the a50 deadline. These include having MEPs for the 2019 - 2024 session.

There is also growing talk around Europe that freedom of movement in its current form is unsustainable. Ironically we might see the EU adopt something akin to Cameron's pre-referendum proposals as the EU reforms.

Theresa May has also announced - at a moment when she is looking particularly weak - a new tax for the NHS, cunningly disguised in spin as 'the Brexit dividend'. Of course shareholders don't always get dividends and at times of poor economic performance instead might be asked to stump up extra capital...Expect to see buses with £350 million of the side just in time for the next general election cycle.

And so the Zombie PM limbers on towards the end of the summer session and the relative safety of the summer holidays. More drama, cringing and disbelief guaranteed before we get there.

btw, I think mrs may just confirmed her status as a dictator.

@MarrShow
“Parliament cannot tie the hands of government,” says @theresa_may #marr

wrt to pesky trolls. Twitter accounts with funny numbers are popping up to fan flames of Macedonian/Greek disagreement, for which an ostensible solution was found this week. One of their (funded?)fascists MPs who rants racistly and threats violence is banned from Greek parliament and facing arrest.

That's the Greece which recently re- voted to remain in the EU, and generous hosts to thousands and thousands of refugees.

Imagine if extremist fascistic and violence inciting politicians were banned/ arrested from the HOC: It would knock out most of the ERG and definitely Mrs May.

The problem with the refugee crisis is that a lot of the member states sat back and left Greece, Italy, Germany and to a certain extent France to deal with it. The burden was placed on Italy and Greece. We have not taken anywhere near the numbers we agreed to take. A much more concerted effort to deal with refugees in the countries around Syria and proper aid to help them would be much better. I'm afraid I can't demonize people who are fleeing a war zone, where chemical weapons have been used against civilians.

I think all EU states were not quick enough to address the situation with a proper long term solution, probably because they did not realise how long it would go on for.

There is a correlation between how badly Brexit is going and agitprop on these threads. The sane but generally silent majority should be encouraged by it.

Of course 'opinion polls' in other European countries show unhappiness, particularly about excessive and uncontrolled immigration, their press and less tolerant parties will be whipping up the feeling. Immigration itself is not a bad thing, but where it is uncontrolled and the immigrants refuse to integrate with the customs that exist previously, can cause great friction.
Since when is an opinion poll a 'fact'? We all know that opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one.
If you go to another country it is YOUR responsibility to fit in, not for the host to change.

In case our visitors are ignorant rather than disingenuous, here’s a handy list of fallacies on Wikipedia for them to take a look at.

Incidentally, one of the more fervent MN brexiters is trying to resuscitate long-dead threads on Germany (Merkel is doomed!) and Catalexit (Spain is doomed!) over on the politics forum.

Something is bothering them.

Forgot the link!
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

misti the answer to that question always shows itself here . When cages are rattled...

There is a correlation between how badly Brexit is going and agitprop on these threads.

I've been dipping into these threads for years now and you always serve up this paranoid stuff whenever a contrary opinion presents itself. Yes, of course Russian bots etc are a real thing, but so are the hundreds of millions of Europeans who offer their real opinions in polls and - most importantly - in the ballot box. You can't just wish them away. 59% of Italians don't want migrants landing on their shores, and they elected a government that is carrying out their wishes. Them's the facts!

Agree with your post Mistigri
I think there are more votes in the Impotent Patriotic Parliament this week?

Back in the day we had leavers posting regularly on here - one or two still do. But the appearance of unfamiliar names is generally a sure sign.

Tell you what, I'll do a search on your mumsnet name common and will be happy to admit my error if it turns out you're just a long-time mumsnet user who posts on other forums on the site, but just happened upon the EU forum for the first time.

Since the 'rules' are that the country an 'immigrant' sets foot in first should 'deal' with the problem Germany by rights shouldn't have needed to deal with any as it has no Med coastline.

A late plaice mat with thanks and 💐to Red for the thread.

Just a random comment I thought I'd already posted towards the end of the last thread. Regarding all the talk of the 'huge' bus supplement to the NHS...and * May claiming on TV there will be a dividend* from relinquishing our membership.

You get big dividends and small ones. Why does no interviewer ever put this in context and remind politicians that all this bus fuss is, at its most about no more than 1% of GDP? That is how little we paid into the EU. Plus the other side of the scales is what we lose.

Since the 'rules' are that the country an 'immigrant' sets foot in first should 'deal' with the problem Germany by rights shouldn't have needed to deal with any as it has no Med coastline.

Quite so - until Merkel unilaterally decided to unilaterally suspend the Dublin regulations and threw Europe into chaos.

Mistigri - you have heard of people changing their usernames? It's kind of a thing on this site. Anyway, unless you were recently promoted to supreme moderator, I'll continue to post whatever I please within the Talk Guidelines, thank you very much.

59% of Italians don't want migrants landing on their shores.
And Britain would possibly vote 100 percent against.
Nobody WANTS migrants to appear in large numbers but due to war and other crap governments the ARE appearing.
If the Syrians or whoever sailed their boats to Australia they would not get a warm reception, they have their own immigration problems but from other countries. Maybe immigrants might fancy moving to Siberia? Plenty of space and I doubt the Kremlin would care less as it is a long way from anywhere and unlikely to affect more than a few Russians. Daft idea, radical, yes but someone needs to start thinking the unthinkable.

Dobby1 - last tablet went literally brilliantly, thank you - there is barely any left. I'm going to have to make another batch for any of the real reasonable people on here who'd like some

Gave some to my dad to give to various friends and family he will be seeing on his travels. Ds and dh have wolfed into the rest I can't have any except the scrapings as I'm on the MN HFLC Boot Camp.

Speaking of which, I made a sugar-free meringue roulade yesterday for a friend's garden party, which went down even better than the "standard" pavlova I also made (Any ideas of what to do with 10 egg yolks and one whole broken egg broke the last one ?) I could post up a picture and/or the recipe

Is Europe in chaos? I thought it was the disunited Kingdom?

In the last two years the EU economy is certainty growing more strongly and steadily compared to ours .

@common
'Help my child is in a burning building, save her'.
OK Madam, you have to wait for the fire brigade, Health and safety regs approved by the EU, they will be along in an hour or so, they are currently rescuing cats from trees'.

Maybe immigrants might fancy moving to Siberia? Plenty of space and I doubt the Kremlin would care less as it is a long way from anywhere and unlikely to affect more than a few Russians. Daft idea, radical, yes but someone needs to start thinking the unthinkable.

That's actually not a bad idea - at least you're thinking outside the box!

Was the UK in EU parliament busily urging the EU to roll it's sleeves up to actually resolve the immigration into Southern Europe crisis? Offering some cash to Germany to help with the immediate influx?
More likely it was skulking in the background hoping no one would ask.
If this is wrong I apologise in advance.

Downloadable leaflets etc for next week's march. Coach places are selling out
Yes please, prettybird!!! Looks divine!
www.stopbrexitmarch.com/get-involved/promotion/

Was the UK in EU parliament busily urging the EU to roll it's sleeves up to actually resolve the immigration into Southern Europe crisis? Offering some cash to Germany to help with the immediate influx?

Why on earth would we pay Germany for their self-inflicted folly? If they'd bothered to ask us, we'd have told them to secure their borders and make it clear that there would be no free-for-all. And then you'd have had no Brexit, no Salvini, no Austrian far-right coalition, etc etc etc.

Of course the obvious solution is to stop those who are waging war in various countries so that no one NEEDS to go anywhere. There are issues with food production in some areas that Western technology and investment could help with (made worse by global weather changes and overpopulation generally).
Meanwhile all this Brexit stuff boils down to Mrs May and a handful of politicians not wanting to be 'embarrassed' in losing a winning vote, that financially we have already lost.
We can be happy for her that her family weren't blown up this morning
by a stray missile.

Why on earth would we pay Germany for their self-inflicted folly?
Try asking this in a few days/weeks and exchange the word 'Germany' for the 'UK'.