Westminstenders: Rebel or Reveal

[RedToothBrush]

The EU Withdrawal Bill made it through the Commons. Though May did not manage it unscathed.

In an attempt to divide and conquer the Rebels, May might have damaged trust. We shall find out. The Grieve Amendment faces the Lords. We also will see if the Lords will back down on their amendments or apply some new ones for the Commons to deal with in Parliamentary Ping Pong.

Aaron Banks has been exposed as being pally with the Russian Embassy in a plot twist that absolutely everyone saw coming.

Meanwhile the EU thinks we have already run out of time and is preparing options to extend talks beyond the a50 deadline. These include having MEPs for the 2019 - 2024 session.

There is also growing talk around Europe that freedom of movement in its current form is unsustainable. Ironically we might see the EU adopt something akin to Cameron's pre-referendum proposals as the EU reforms.

Theresa May has also announced - at a moment when she is looking particularly weak - a new tax for the NHS, cunningly disguised in spin as 'the Brexit dividend'. Of course shareholders don't always get dividends and at times of poor economic performance instead might be asked to stump up extra capital...Expect to see buses with £350 million of the side just in time for the next general election cycle.

And so the Zombie PM limbers on towards the end of the summer session and the relative safety of the summer holidays. More drama, cringing and disbelief guaranteed before we get there.

I can’t reach

Why would russia want Brexit?

Hey what’s your solution to the refugee crisis? You don’t want them to come here, so should we just let people, including children, just die? You don’t think we should stop bombing them so where should they go?

Hey what’s your solution to the refugee crisis?

Close the external borders. Keep them closed. Avoid the far-right domination of Europe for the next several decades. Job done.

Happy Fathers' day to all the dads on this thread, vocal or just watching.
Sending love to those who can't share today with their dfs too

@ my naysayers.
Some of what I say may make no sense to you, maybe you should get out more.
The people leaving Syria are doing so because their life means that they don't know what will happen from minute to minute.
Will their house be bombed tonight. Will mum be out on the street tomorrow picking the fragments of her child up that had accidentally picked up a piece of live ordinance, or will it happen the day after?
Taking this nearer home. As the Brexit discussions are going so well and the UK is going to get poorer, how many of you are actively looking at moving to Europe/USA/Anywhere?
9/11 was perpetrated by a mere handful of people who were prepared to die for their cause. Propaganda has it that ISIS is 'on the way out' but if they simply 'played nice' and keep their heads down they could blend into society and reemerge at a later date. The vast majority of those on the Island of Ireland do not want to see any recurrence of tension at the northern border but it it is totally naive to think that there are not some who wish to restart trouble.
I don't know the answers but pretending things won't happen when it can be seen they ARE happening is folly.

There is a 'far right' INSIDE the UK, so closing the borders will keep them in. They are white British too.

My garden is looking fab this morning. The brassica bed has really taken off with the recent rain and the purple podded peas have just started flowering. Looking forward to the pea harvest.

Place mat king

In Italy, the Lega - a formerly irrelevant fringe party - now supplies the interior minister and has surged to 28.5% in the polls, almost matching 5 Stars' 30.1%. But keep putting your fingers in your ears and pretending that open borders are politically sustainable:
www.corriere.it/politica/18_giugno_02/sondaggi-elettorali-lega-28-per-cento-5-stelle-scendono-30-risale-pd-f2f39d02-65cf-11e8-b063-cd4146153181_amp.html?

It’s interesting to me that leavers only seem to attack and never offer any actual ideas or solutions to the myriad of problems that leaving the EU is causing/will cause.

Yes, this. And are also so constantly angry.

And what of Germany, with it's so-open-minded-my-brain's-fallen-out Willkommenskultur? That's still going strong, right? Whoops:
www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/17/angela-merkel-doubted-at-home-reign-ending

most Germans, recalling her 2015 “open door” policy, do not trust Merkel on this issue. Polls indicate 65% back tighter border controls.

Thank you @pretty. You have highlighted that I should have planted more stuff earlier but haven't.
@common
The concept of completely open borders was a bit naive and at the formation of the EU with significantly fewer countries and a 'buffer' of 'almost European' countries surrounding the massive migrations we see now looked unlikely. Yes a 'policy fail' and there will be a lot of hard negotiation to come up with a workable plan. Mr Trump is pushing for a big wall to keep Mexicans out, even though Mexicans do lots of the crap jobs Americans don't want to do. Would you propose a series of walls around countries (one hell of a lot of bricks) or maybe find a properly managed plan?
Russia wanting Brexit. Keep up @Heydug, that was covered a day or two ago.
How about a practical thought from you on the subject of 10,000 people arriving on your 'doorstep', what are you going to do with them? Assume that shooting them all is not one of the answers.

There are no easy answers. It would be nice to see the UN taking a more pro-active role in relation to the Mediterranean refugee crisis; the problem can really only be addressed at source. In the meantime, though, there has to at least be an open cross-EU conversation which doesn't descend to every nation closing its borders in the hope that the refugees will go somewhere else.

Rather than taking pleasure in a tactical mistake that Germany (and other countries in the EU) made in not putting sufficient restrictions in place maybe we should be helping to find a solution.
If you were to fall in the street and sustain fairly serious injury would you like passers by to ignore you and mock you for your carelessness or would a hand up and possible trip to the A&E be appreciated?
As it stands, apart from the logistical hassle of getting a coherent plan from 27 countries they are all bound to help.

If you were to fall in the street and sustain fairly serious injury would you like passers by to ignore you and mock you for your carelessness or would a hand up and possible trip to the A&E be appreciated?

Wrong analogy - Merkel put out an open house party invitation on Facebook, and when 500 strangers turned up and trashed the place, she tried to force the neighbours to take them in. No sympathy for her whatsoever.

@Irene
Absolutely. The countries bordering the Med are the current issue and most are EU. Israel and Egypt may not be as popular a destination.
Like Brexit, the shit is already in the fan and it is now a process of working out the 'least bad' solution.

So angry... you won - get over it!

Asking questions that have been answered over and over and over... why do Russia want Brexit? They want to destabilise the EU. Keep up. And if you can't keep up, keep out.

Some of the things written by hey and common are so appalling, callous and inhumane that I am going to have to believe, for sanity's sake, that they are simply trolls that don't believe the awful hate they spout... they're just on the wind up.
If there are really people out there who think like them then that makes the whole of humanity just a little bit worse. Absolutely shameful and disgusting viewpoints being aired by the leavers on this thread.

I can't see much beyond the prospect of my Jo Coxes - people who do try and be rational and bring people together being the victims and targets of hate (red from last thread)
red and eveyone.

The Germans have moved on from the 1945 mentality. The UK is still in 'Dads Army' mode.
Mrs Merkel made a 'bad call' and overreached herself, perhaps because she was thinking and acting faster than the EU 'machine' could keep up with. She could have said no and let them starve while other countries stood by. You mock and deride her for trying, shame on you.
Take Windrush as the sparkling jewel in Britain's crown.

If there are really people out there who think like them then that makes the whole of humanity just a little bit worse. Absolutely shameful and disgusting viewpoints being aired by the leavers on this thread.

Try reading the opinion polls in European countries and looking at their recent election results - it's hundreds of millions of Europeans who hold these views and vote accordingly, not just British leavers!

I thought Remainers were supposed to be big on empirical evidence? Clearly not when the facts contradict your ideology.

ican sadly I know people like that in real life. Black holes in their souls, they try to suck others into their vacuous hatred. I know they're the minority though.

59% of all Italians support Salvini turning away the migrant boats. 59%. That's even more than voted Leave!

mobile.twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1008086598372810753

The view from Italy

59% say Italy right to shut ports

68% say Matteo Salvini was right in being strong against the EU

(86% of 5*, 89% Forza, 93% League endorse Salvini)

I know they're the minority though.

Not in Italy!

Placemarking.

pretty how did the last tablet batch go?

"I know they're the minority though.

Not in Italy! "

People with truly repellent views, like the ones expressed re food banks in the previous thread, are in a small minority. I truly believe that.

But a lot of people are not terribly sophisticated and seek simple solutions to complex problems, and unfortunately these people can be influenced by repellant people like Farage in the UK and the Northern League in Italy.

I don't think concerns about migration from North Africa are misplaced; everyone should be concerned, if only because of the huge risk that migrants are exposed to during migration. Unfortunately, it is very easy for this concern to be manipulated by racists and populists.