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Brexit

Westminstenders: Rebel or Reveal

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/06/2018 10:14

The EU Withdrawal Bill made it through the Commons. Though May did not manage it unscathed.

In an attempt to divide and conquer the Rebels, May might have damaged trust. We shall find out. The Grieve Amendment faces the Lords. We also will see if the Lords will back down on their amendments or apply some new ones for the Commons to deal with in Parliamentary Ping Pong.

Aaron Banks has been exposed as being pally with the Russian Embassy in a plot twist that absolutely everyone saw coming.

Meanwhile the EU thinks we have already run out of time and is preparing options to extend talks beyond the a50 deadline. These include having MEPs for the 2019 - 2024 session.

There is also growing talk around Europe that freedom of movement in its current form is unsustainable. Ironically we might see the EU adopt something akin to Cameron's pre-referendum proposals as the EU reforms.

Theresa May has also announced - at a moment when she is looking particularly weak - a new tax for the NHS, cunningly disguised in spin as 'the Brexit dividend'. Of course shareholders don't always get dividends and at times of poor economic performance instead might be asked to stump up extra capital...Expect to see buses with £350 million of the side just in time for the next general election cycle.

And so the Zombie PM limbers on towards the end of the summer session and the relative safety of the summer holidays. More drama, cringing and disbelief guaranteed before we get there.

OP posts:
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BigChocFrenzy · 19/06/2018 20:38

If Merkel falls, the UK would be in an even worse case,
because a chancellor of any other party would be much tougher on the UK and more likely to veto any possible concessions to help the UK.

So I don't understand Leavers joy at seeing her in difficulty.

German public opinion is very strongly that the Brits are making a pig's ear of Brexit, through ignorance, entitlement & arrogance.
Hence, no politician here wants to be associated with the mess that especially a no-deal Brexit would bring.

The SPD, FDP, Greens have all been advocating a tougher line than Merkel (on the rare occasions that Brexit is even mentioned here)
Not even the AfD would sacrifice political capital to advocate helping the UK
Also, the AfD, which genuinely has acquired many neo-Nazi supporters in recent years, have never been particular friends of the UK - they remember the War too.

It is very strange that Leavers, who keep harking back to the glory days of WW2, keep looking to the far right, the new fascists in Europe for support
(which in practice is not there anyway)

BigChocFrenzy · 19/06/2018 20:44

Neil Marshall #FBPEE*[[https://mobile.twitter.com/ANMarshall
@ANMarshall]]
You couldn't make this up.
Two vice-chairs of the local #Toryy^ party for MP Chloe Smith have been arrested for election fraud.
Never heard of Chloe Smith?
She's the Minister in charge of fighting election fraud.
Could only happen in @theresa_may's corrupt government...

BigChocFrenzy · 19/06/2018 20:45

Ah, now I understand, 54321

54321go · 19/06/2018 20:53

Most countries have a certain 'antisocial' element but having a generally decent standard of living and police that are firm keep them in check.
Too many 'poor' and feeling deprived stirs up trouble.
I feel sorry for Mrs Merkel in having to deal with these issues. She went out on a limb to help refugees/immigrants but contrary to the leaver's opinion that she is 'in charge of the EU', has been left out.
Those I speak to in Europe if asked about Brexit say something on the lines of 'what the hell are you doing' then move swiftly on to something else.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/06/2018 20:58

Civil Service job ad - interested, red or any Westministender ?

Horrifying how late this is - have they only recently realised how much Brexit affect the aviation sector
Leaver RNorth has been blogging on this for years.

https://www.civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk/csr/jobs.cgi?jcode=1586968

Head of Aviation EU Exit Negotiations

Leading on the overall negotiating position on aviation for the Government, your duties will include:
• establishing, leading and managing the core aviation negotiating team, and ensuring its close coordination with existing policy and legislation teams
• overseeing negotiations with the EU on the future of our aviation safety and airspace relationships

This role will require travel to Europe, potentially frequently at some periods

Prior knowledge of airspace and the aviation sector is an advantage but not necessary Grin

Interviews/assessments are likely to be held between 16/07/2018 and 20/07/2018

GaspodeWonderCat · 19/06/2018 21:02

54321go re ID cards. They could be 'simple' name, photo, address etc. But the UK govt has a LONG history of adding unnecessary complexity to any project. They would try to make it one card to rule them all (and in the darkness bind them). Overly complex, over budget and ...

woman11017 · 19/06/2018 21:17

Head of Aviation EU Exit Negotiations
isn't there a bit in the film Airplane where they ask for volunteers to fly the plane? And they end up with an inflatable pilot?

Crib notes for porcine ERG types in vote tomorrow.

@SamCoatesTimes
ERG note on tomorrow’s vote and how hard brexit Tories should behave - and why.

Can’t see any particular surprises but gives a flavour of their arguments to be used tomorrow

Westminstenders: Rebel or Reveal
Westminstenders: Rebel or Reveal
Westminstenders: Rebel or Reveal
54321go · 19/06/2018 21:23

@Gaspode
Sadly I agree with you. The government and computers are at odds with each other. Kept to 5 or 6 lines of 'data' (as I said) it would work sufficiently to cover 99 percent of potential issues. Obviously stuff goes wrong but it would be sufficient for it's purpose.
I am sure all the current gov activities are reruns of the Yes Minister/Yes Prime Minister programmes.
Those jobs look interesting. Almost worth doing one for 6 months then getting sacked but the pay is nowhere near enough.
If the insurance and existing regulations 'say no' so that planes are grounded you won't need to know much about aviation for some time.

54321go · 19/06/2018 21:24

You mean George (IIRC).

SwedishEdith · 19/06/2018 21:28

Incredible to be hunting top staff now, who may then have to learn about aviation !

Well, someone could have resigned.

mrsreynolds · 19/06/2018 21:31

I'll do it.

I've been on a plane recently...

54321go · 19/06/2018 21:32

The job ad seems to be for 2 persons, or are they not sure what the job will actually be yet?

54321go · 19/06/2018 21:34

Thank you Mrsreynolds for your application unfortunately you seem overqualified for these posts. We do however have other opportunities available, what do you fancy doing?

borntobequiet · 19/06/2018 21:37

In the early 70s I had my passport nicked on the Spanish/French border. I hitchhiked all the way to Paris with only my slightly tatty NHS card as ID (in those days the gendarmes pretty much automatically asked for ”vos papiers” if you were seen hitching). The NHS card was found perfectly satisfactory on every occasion - I’m the only person I know who can recite their NHS number when asked. Everyone has an NHS number, it’s the perfect identifier.

54321go · 19/06/2018 21:40

I've got mine, on the postcard it came on over 40 years ago.

borntobequiet · 19/06/2018 21:43

Mine was like that! But I lost it some years ago...

commonarewe · 19/06/2018 21:45

If Merkel falls, the UK would be in an even worse case, because a chancellor of any other party would be much tougher on the UK and more likely to veto any possible concessions to help the UK.

So I don't understand Leavers joy at seeing her in difficulty.

Merkel needs to fall because her policies - let's be generous and call them criminally negligent and stupid, rather than malevolent - have caused chaos across Europe and devastated the unity she pretends to champion. I don't give two shits how it affects the UK's negotiating position - Merkel deserves to live in infamy and execration for what she's done.

mrsreynolds · 19/06/2018 21:49

54321go

I am competent, enthusiastic and work well in a team.

What can you offer me?

What do you mean a job in the EU!?

54321go · 19/06/2018 21:58

@Common
When/If the UK leaves a lot of the EU countries will be mightily pissed off at the stupendous amount of money they will lose.
If Mrs Merkel loses out and the German Far right get more prominent, there is a possibility it will embolden the far rights of other countries to join in. If/when they decide that the UK may be part of their woes they may take their grievances out on the UK.There is a risk that the other EU countries might accidentally be looking away during any attacks.
Currently the EU binds countries together so although some 'badness' could happen, they are obliged to help.
Hopefully all hypothetical of course but you need to be careful what you wish for.

54321go · 19/06/2018 22:02

@Mrs
At this rate, head of soup kitchens at least.

colouringinagain · 19/06/2018 22:21

Could someone poss explain the issue with Anna Soubry please?

mrsreynolds · 19/06/2018 22:25

Soubry?

Look at her Twitter feed

Look at her FB page

Look at her tv appearances

Read her newspaper interviews

Then look at her voting record

Talk is cheap. Evidently.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/06/2018 22:46

It was the US, Uk & Russia whose wars created the chaotic hellholes that bred terror and caused mass refugees.
Then washed their hands of the victims they had created

Merkel didn't start any wars.
She just tried to deal with the consequent refugees whose numbers had already overwhelmed resources of Germany's neighbours.
To scare them back home, she would have had to threaten atrocities worse than those they were fleeing.

She - like many in the CDU - actually takes the "Christian" bit of Christian Democratic Union seriously sometimes, even when it's unpopular.
I respect that in a politician.

Her party could have chosen to gain votes by deliberately playing on public fears about immigration, like the Tories have been doing since the 1980s

It is important to realise that Brexit is largely the result of decades of this scare-mongering by the Tories and the rightwing media.
Brexit is the result of cynical Tory electioneering, coming home to tear them apart

Another reason - and also of the rise of the far right across Europe - is the actions of the "disaster capitalists:"
billionaire oligarchs in the US, UK, Russia who plan to make huge profits from economic crashes there

They financed and organised the hard right online, going back to before the refugee crisis.
If it hadn't been refugees, they'd have found some other populist cause, e.g. the mass loss of jobs to India & China, rising inequality ....

HesterThrale · 19/06/2018 22:56

Tom Watson has written to the ASA calling for an investigation into Theresa May's misleading advertising over "Brexit dividend" to fund NHS crisis.

mobile.twitter.com/tom_watson/status/1008759976523915264

All well and good, but when are Labour going to apply their 6 tests and find they're unachievable? Long overdue, if you ask me. It's too late to do anything if they leave it till the deal is brokered. And surely we know now most of them can't be met?

Starmer’s six tests for the Brexit deal are:

1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU?

2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?

3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?

4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom?

5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime?

6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?

labourlist.org/2017/03/keir-starmer-labour-has-six-tests-for-brexit-if-theyre-not-met-we-wont-back-the-final-deal-in-parliament/

BigChocFrenzy · 19/06/2018 23:02

Gotta love John Crace:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/18/tory-mps-pants-are-on-fire-over-upskirting-issue

"If you are forced to issue a statement over the weekend to clarify you are not a pervert, it is safe to say you’ve probably lost the argument" Grin