Westminstenders: Rebel or Reveal

[RedToothBrush]

The EU Withdrawal Bill made it through the Commons. Though May did not manage it unscathed.

In an attempt to divide and conquer the Rebels, May might have damaged trust. We shall find out. The Grieve Amendment faces the Lords. We also will see if the Lords will back down on their amendments or apply some new ones for the Commons to deal with in Parliamentary Ping Pong.

Aaron Banks has been exposed as being pally with the Russian Embassy in a plot twist that absolutely everyone saw coming.

Meanwhile the EU thinks we have already run out of time and is preparing options to extend talks beyond the a50 deadline. These include having MEPs for the 2019 - 2024 session.

There is also growing talk around Europe that freedom of movement in its current form is unsustainable. Ironically we might see the EU adopt something akin to Cameron's pre-referendum proposals as the EU reforms.

Theresa May has also announced - at a moment when she is looking particularly weak - a new tax for the NHS, cunningly disguised in spin as 'the Brexit dividend'. Of course shareholders don't always get dividends and at times of poor economic performance instead might be asked to stump up extra capital...Expect to see buses with £350 million of the side just in time for the next general election cycle.

And so the Zombie PM limbers on towards the end of the summer session and the relative safety of the summer holidays. More drama, cringing and disbelief guaranteed before we get there.

It's part of the "victim" mentality, that somehow the other European countries got masses of Marshall aid, but poor old Britain didn't get its fair share.
In fact, the UK got more than any other country, but spunked it on trying to temain an imperial power

Like some Leavers blaming the EU for the UK choosing Brexit

We did it to ourselves !
The UK makes too many poor choices because of delusions of grandeur

I used to think Brexit would be a reality check like Suez, when the UK got slapped down for its delusions.
I was wrong
A no deal would be a much worse hit to the UK than Suez

However, Norway+ would hardly be noticeable, because it would only mean the country's wealth increasing less than it would have without Brexit

Thank you for the correction. I didn't do history so my only experience is being old, but not THAT old! However it does reinforce my point that we COULD have improved things but were more interested in Empire, the ones we don't want to come to Britain.
I am presuming Marshall aid is the money we were returning to the USA for 50 years? I wonder how long the other countries were paying their loan back for?
MN, your source for History, politics and fab recipes!

I used to think Brexit would be a reality check like Suez, when the UK got slapped down for its delusions.

I wonder if some Remainers realize that the relish with which they express their contempt for their own country reaffirms Leavers' voting decision far more than economic / geopolitical considerations undermine it.

Half time score: 354-235 England's winning.

I think the word you are missing common is 'some' Leavers.

@common
The real issue is that British government hasn't really moved on enough from the 'Empire' days when it was permissible to just shoot people (foreign ones) that stood in your way. Britain is not alone in this of course, many used to be 'at it' to increase their stake around the world.
The Germans got slated for the Holocaust. Yes it was barbaric and I am not defending it in any shape or form but they did it within Europe, so it was 'obvious' and it was 'mechanised'.
The British, Belgian and many others did their mass killings in countries far away (before the age of real, 'quick', news channels).

54322:
No, Marshall Aid was money earmarked for the rebuilding of Europe by the US government, the brainchild of George Marshall.

The idea behind Marshall Aid was to jump start Europe's economy, with the hope being that states that were prosperous would not be vulnerable to extremist politics on either right or left (especially on the left, in the Cold War context).

Iirc this was free money. The US had the idea that there was no use having an economy bursting at the gills with consumer products if there was nowhere to sell it to (i.e. with Europe in ruins for decades) after domestic demand was met.

West Germany used it to develop industries, to rebuild cities, provide housing, telecom networks, transport and other infrastructure, educational institutions, etc. Other European states put the money to similar use. The UK used the money to quash nationalist rebellions all over the Empire.

Commonarewe:
There is nothing wrong with stating that this was moronic policy on the part of successive UK governments. There is no nobility in nodding and agreeing with frittering away millions and millions of pounds, or dollars, on vanity projects.

There was no glory in Suez either, another spectacularly inglorious vanity project, and nothing to be gained by pretending that many UK governments were - and are - monumentally misguided.

Maybe draw the blinds, put a damp towel across your face and take it easy for a few hours, if your sense of patriotism is getting the better of your willingness to accept reality?

Commonarewe, maybe your impression of security and your prognosis for Europe after Brexit severs current security links are based a little too much on the impression created by James Bond movies?

@faisalislam
Majority against Govt of 119 - that’s about 30 more than last time in Lords... so all back to the Commons for a near replay of what happened last Wednesday -only this time, with the wording of what Dominic Grieve thinks he had already agreed with Solicitor General Thurs afternoon

Tory rebels up from 19 to 22 since this meaningful vote last went to Lords ...
Including the respected ex Trade minister Lord Livingston of Parkhead, former Tory co-chair Baroness Warsi, ex union point man Lord Balfe

Normally you might expect the number of crossbenchers asking the Commons to think again to dwindle, gone markedly up - now includes likes of Lord Woolf, former Lord Chief Justice, Master of the Rolls... Could they bounce it back again, if required?

Numbers of pro EU campaigners outside is increasing too.

@JMPSimor
Beautiful - a wonderful piece of theatre.

Listen out for "oh you are an idiot".

twitter.com/BBCParliament/status/1008738937081335808

Iirc this was free money

It was a loan - it took the UK 61 years to pay back.

Did anyone hear Eddie Mair’s R4 item on air travel post March 2019? Seems like the EU has run out of patience and has said the UK is out of the open skies agreements and therefore the majority of flights will be grounded?

Do you think if England manage the unthinkable and win the World Cup that would satisfy the patriotic loons for a few years, so they can prattle on about two world cups and two world wars rather than politics?

In a word red, no

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
After the 119 vote defeat in the Lords on the meaningful vote, a source phoned to say No10 is both worried - and unimpresssed and the hunt may be on for a new Leader in the Lords soon....

Don't spoil my dreaming.

Marshall Aid was a generous and far-sighted gift from the USA to help Europe rebuild after WW2, not a loan.
This was a time before being charitable was called virtue-signalling

However, it was also to strengthen the West, because the Cold War with Russia began almost immediately WW2 ended

Marshall Aid is quite separate from the loans that the UK took from the USA (& Canada) during WW2, including before the USA joined the war.
It is these war loans that were only fully paid off in 2006

Sorry

Aren't most of the best football players for england 'forrin'?

Do you think if England manage the unthinkable and win the World Cup that would satisfy the patriotic loons for a few years, so they can prattle on about two world cups and two world wars rather than politics?

There's actually a decent chance that Belgium could win

Those Iraqi players though...

Phwoar

😍

Marshall Aid was a mixture of loans and grants.

[It is these war loans that were only fully paid off in 2006.]
The final payments of this I remember being announced on the radio but I couldn't remember exactly what it was for and I am afraid with slightly conflicting reports here I might have to google it (tomorrow).
The relevance really was that it was the UK signing into massive loans and the possibility that the way the UK is heading it might need to do again. If too much manufacturing decides to leave there is only so much that you can tax an economy that is not producing enough 'new' money.
I can't get over the concept that the MPs are intending to take their long summer recess while leaving so much of the Brexit mess in the air. As I commented on this or another thread, if you were having heart surgery and half way through the whole medical team went out for an hour's lunch you would be seriously displeased, as the EU should be.

The loans part of Marshall Aid were on generous terms and were only 15% of the total, compared to 85% that were outright gifts
You're right; I'd forgotten about that 15%

iirc loans during WW2, taken out when the Uk was nearly bankrupt, were not on such generous terms and also had other conditions attached, such as opening up formerly closed markets within the British Empire to US businesses.

However, Marshall Aid was a brilliant success in helping most of Europe to rebuild.
Pity that the Uk used it unwisely