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Brexit

Westministenders: Brexmeggadon Redux.

990 replies

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2018 16:36

The last thread started about how the Withdrawal Bill was in tatters with The Rebel Forces feeling confident of staying in the Customs Union and there seemed to be a growing backlash towards the hostile environment and the need to reduce immigration.

This thread starts with the revelation this week that Farage has claimed that he never said the UK would be better off financially under Brexit, just that we would be self-governing and the Brexmeggadon Planning Revelation.

The Sunday Times has published a story about No Deal Brexit as senior civil servants have drawn up scenarios for David Davis. If you remember the minister responsible for No Deal is actually Steve Baker. That’s ERG founder Steve Baker. And if you remember he is facing queries from Brexiteers about whether he is truly committed to Brexit on the basis of his recent actions and comments.

There were reported that his plans for No Deal were stalling and proving impossible.

And today we have the Brexmeggadon ‘Project Fear’ article with three levels of jeopardy: Mild, Severe and ‘Oh my fucking God’.

Suddenly all our talk of stockpiling on Westministenders are starting to look rather prudent and enlightened. Ian Dunt’s book is looking like a Brexit Manual. David Allen Green is just standing there going ‘Well’. And George Osbourne is maniacally laughing his head off somewhere.

In the Level 2 Disaster Planning we are looking at Dover collapsing on Day One, food would run out within days and hospitals would run out of medicine within weeks. Petrol would run out within week two too.

As I’ve point out before in the worst case, the government has insufficient police and army to manage a worse case scenario.
Of course this is so explosive, its only been shared with a handful of ministers and are ‘locked in a safe’ and The Sunday Times don’t tell you what is in the ‘Bremeggadon’ scenario.

Or you could just read social media for the ‘scaremongering’.

We now have political attempts to FOI or force the publication of these reports to look forward too. The irony being that in this case the government will have a legitimate case that it would be against national security to release them. Of course they can’t actually admit that either!

Naturally Cabinet ministers and DeXeu has dismissed the article as not true. What else could they do?

Only for a ‘government source’ to claim that the denial was ‘untrue’ to Sam Coates of The Times.

Matthew Holehouse pointed out that the government can’t say for certain what impact no deal will have on medicine supply chains, because review on this isn’t due to finish its “initial” work until “late spring 2018”. Of course we are now in Summer 2018 and its still not been completed. Which obviously bodes well.

And there is talk of Chilcot style inquiries into Brexit sometime in the future. Westministenders is once again way ahead on that score…

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Meanwhile over in the Labour corner, growing pressure has been mounting on Corbyn. This week has seen the launch of a Corbyn supporting left wing pressure group, comprised of grassroots and trade unions to stop him supporting the harakiri of Tory Brexiteers.

We wait with tepid enthusiasm and sceptical levels of optimism for Corbyn’s climb down. St Jeremy knows what he wants...

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What does all this talk all mean? I think its difficult to read as much different to the media catching up with what the sane – who have a modicum of understanding of what trade deals, the custom union and the single market actually are - have been saying for sometime. Reality can’t be spun forever. At some point, you have to start preparing the public for the coming shit storm or the inevitable u-turn. This seems likely to be the move to kill off No Deal once and for all.

In terms of a ‘possible civil war’ under Brexmeggadon, its noticeable key Brexiteers are backing away from the cake. That doesn’t smack of civil unrest, that smacks of cowardice and a lack of Brexiteer leadership as no one is truly prepared to nail themselves to the mast as the ship starts to sink.

I also don’t think people will blame other people in the event of no food and no medicine and no medicine. I think people will be fairly unified in blaming those in charge who caused ‘No Deal’.
Oh and The American Trade Wars have began.

Ronald Regan ‘We should beware of the demagogues who are ready to declare a trade war against our friends—weakening our economy, our national security, and the entire free world—all while cynically waving the American flag.’

Hmmm. Sounds a lot like Brexit doesn't it?

Turnips anyone?
Planting season is late June to early July.

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33
ChardonnaysPrettySister · 09/06/2018 17:35

There’s no way to deliver the fucking Brexit anyway.

I’m not a fan of TM but she cannot deliver something that’s pure unicorn fantasy.

Farrage is such a twat.

Danniz · 09/06/2018 17:36

I think that Farage may just have noticed that Trump is the leader of a massive global power, and that May is not? May is a bully by nature, but against the EU she doesn't have enough power behind her to pull Trump's approach off. Doesn't stop her trying, apparently.

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 09/06/2018 17:40

Nigel Farage says UK could be worse off after Brexit if Theresa May fails to get tough with Brussels
Its not a could though, nor whether she toughens up or not. The government's own analysis shows there's no better off brexit.

Peregrina · 09/06/2018 17:52

Some Leavers deserve to have horrible things said about them - the ones who have crowed and crowed about how we lost, get over it, but are mighty silent when we ask what benefits they expect to see. Or can only give the weary reasons for voting Leave as sovereignty, not wanting to be crowded out by immigrants, having an EU army (but not having any problem with American led NATO) and so on.

I have every sympathy for those who thought the NHS would get more money if we voted Leave.

IrenetheQuaint · 09/06/2018 17:55

I'm sure Farage doesn't accept the government's forecasts for what will happen post-Brexit (and indeed economic forecasts generally are wrong in one direction or the other).

However, he must be perfectly well aware that if May walks away from talks the EU are not suddenly going to rush to give the UK everything we want. Instead they will do the bare minimum to ensure UK residents don't actually starve.

Icantreachthepretzels · 09/06/2018 18:13

I'd have more sympathy with the NHS leave voters if they would stand up to be counted and say 'I got it wrong ... not in my name. I want us to remain.' I would have sympathy with them if they contacted their mps to tell them that. Or if they trumpeted all over social media that they had changed their kind and encouraged others to do likewise, and agitated for the people's vote. (some are doing this - and good on them - but not enough)

But any leave voter - whatever their reasons - who refuses to engage in reality, or accept the consequences of their vote and do their utmost to change it. deserves everything they get.

Silence, complicity, and wilful indifference is every bit as much to blame for the brexit we are getting as the initial vote was. And that goes for the 'oh let's just get on with it' remainers, as well.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/06/2018 18:21

The benefits of Brexit were massively "over-promised" and May when she became PM was too chicken to give the country a reality check

  • going by her statements before the ref and to JRM recently, she does realise at least some of the dangers

Some Leave politicians have also intended to bring about a no-deal Brexit national train-crash , so they and their wealthy chums can loot the country (even more than they do already)

Others may finally have realised the dangers, but will never admit the dreadful mistake they have helped cause.

Many Remainers also think it will turn out OK in the end,
because the Uk has almost no living memory of mass deprivation and hardship
Despite public cynicism about politicians, there is a touching faith that they wouldn't let things go that badly wrong Hmm

My late father told me of how his NE wc family were literally barefoot and hungry for a few years during the 1920s / 1930s Depression
but such knowledge does not seem to have been widely passed down the generations.
Maybe that old generation wanted to forget the nightmare they suffered, felt shame, didn't want to distress their kids, because of course it could never happen again ? Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 09/06/2018 18:26

Polls in NI indicate that even more people there think the Brexit ref vote was a mistake
However, in the UK as a whole, YouGov have that down as about 44% only of people.

That can only be that most UK voters discount warnings as Project Fear; the Leave campaign was incredibly effective at rubbishing that, just hopeless at actually delivering any Brexit, never mind one with the promised unicorns

DGRossetti · 09/06/2018 18:36

^DG If Brexit goes badly, after all the promises of sunny uplands and they need us more because … cars, prosecco, now holidays grin…
then almost all the Leavers - the govt, media & ordinary supporters - will claim it is because of EU "punishment" and Remainer treachery.^

Except we were all told before the referendum how the UK held all the trump cards (sorry). They needed us more than we needed them. They were a bunch of lily livered foreigners who'd fold at the first sign of trouble.

They can delude themselves all they like, when they meet up on successive June 23rds, to drown their sorrows. But meanwhile, there's enough footage to start a war of Farage, Davies et al banging on about how it would be a piece of piss.

Of course ! Schrodinger's Brexit !!!!

54321go · 09/06/2018 18:39

The NHS COULD be funded properly if some of the unnecessary 'vanity' projects were culled or scaled down. It is completely in the UK government's capability to prioritise money in this way. Trident replacement, Aircraft carriers and so on are hardly NECESSARY in the 'modern age'. Is HS2 REALLY going to help, especially if Brexit means that goods are less likely to go to / from Europe?
The Twin towers were brought down by a handful of radicals with hand guns, and there are plenty of guns around the world.

DGRossetti · 09/06/2018 18:41

And I have to say that some remainers on Mumsnet and no doubt elsewhere, out of massive frustration and fear, which I share, are saying some horrible things about Leavers.

I differentiate between Leavers - who had a cogent reasoned argument for their stance, and "Brexiteers" who continue to be thick as pigshit. They are very easy to tell apart. Leavers appreciate the difficulties of the process (and are generally appalled by where we are).

Brexiteers only answer to all questions is "we won, get over it" and "that's not my problem" ... and when pressed they invariably mutter something about immigration and/or sovereignty when it's obvious - 2 years on - they still know fuck all about either.

Deliberate ignorance deserves all the opprobrium heaped on it.

Just for balance, there are some Remaniacs out there too. And they are just as bad.

TheElementsSong · 09/06/2018 19:11

That "they've brought it on us and deserve everything they get; I won't help anyone when everything collapses in case they voted leave" kind of thing

We keep being assured that Leavers knew exactly what they voted for, therefore they wanted whatever is going to happen, didn’t they? Unless they didn’t fully understand what they were voting for??

And if everything collapses (which I hope think is not going to happen), too damn right I’ll be busy taking care of my family and loved ones first and foremost, and not wasting effort and resources on those who were happy to unconcernedly chuck me under the bus.

Danniz · 09/06/2018 19:23

Of course they didn't know what they were voting for. I'd say that almost no leave voters had much of an idea of what they were voting for. They were played - and I don't fully blame them for that.
What is less forgivable is that they haven't learned much since then.
But then how many people who voted Remain realise how bad the situation is and are actually doing anything to try to affect the outcome - eg writing to their MP, going on a demo, arguing with others to try to get them to change their mind? We live in a very apathetic country. I suspect that only a tiny minority have a real idea of what is going on, and that few of those are doing anything. Am I wrong?

lettuceWrap · 09/06/2018 19:31

I’ve just donated a few pounds to the People’s Vote campaign- not sure if I’m allowed to link here, so I won’t, but easy enough to google if (like me). you feel you need to “do something” Smile

MimpiDreams · 09/06/2018 19:39

What is less forgivable is that they haven't learned much since then.

What is it, something like 46% still want it to go ahead? How on earth can that be? That they see the utter shite we're heading into and they still want to go there? What the fuck is wrong with them?

My mum is one. Nothing will change her mind. Nothing. Because it's not based on anything reasonable rational in the first place. She lost contact with me and her grandchildren over her attitude to brexit, but she still wouldn't change it or do anything different. She's out of her bloody mind.

Hasenstein · 09/06/2018 20:09

Mimpi

How many relationships with families and friends have been buggered up, perhaps for ever, by the arrogance and stupidity of Cameron and most of the politicians/bandwagon-jumpers? How dare they presume to toy with people's lives for their own selfish ends.

And even worse, just like your mum, they persist in their ideological fantasies and never-satisfied greed, even though they know very well there's a cliff edge approaching. It's not just your mum who's out of her mind, half the nation and the entire government are, too.

Hasenstein · 09/06/2018 20:12

Mimpi

Sorry, I seem to have implied that your mum was motivated by ideological fantasies and greed. Not what i meant Blush. You've already said your mum's view is based on nothing rational. The fantasy and greed bit applies more to the political classes, who played on people's irrationality for their own selfish purposes..

Icantreachthepretzels · 09/06/2018 20:16

As to this:
What is it, something like 46% still want it to go ahead? How on earth can that be? That they see the utter shite we're heading into and they still want to go there? What the fuck is wrong with them?

Brexit has become a religion. It is a cult and the brexiteers are religious zealots.

Of course they didn't know what they were voting for. I'd say that almost no leave voters had much of an idea of what they were voting for. They were played - and I don't fully blame them for that.

I they would have something very rude to say in reply to that -something about you being a patronising remoaner and a liberal elite who should just fuck off to Brussels if you love it so much... never tell a leaver that they didn't know what they were voting for. It's like the 8th deadly sin.

And like TheElementsSong I'm happy to take them at their word - they genuinely voted to starve, they genuinely voted for their children to not be able to get vital medication. So I feel no guilt in allowing them to live their dreams, whist I hoard tinned fish, cornflakes and toilet paper.

lonelyplanetmum · 09/06/2018 20:19

Just want to vent my angst.

I just went to the South of England show, which is a massive county show upwards of 60-70,000 people attend over three days. 100's of stands, at least five show rings with horse and animal stuff going on.

The announcer during the main parade was SO out of order. He shouldn't be seeking to gain political influences throughout is commentary, but he was. His constant asides were about 'Buy British'. This is tolerable I suppose, aside from the fact he implied we could be self sufficient with British food. Even the NFU concede we can only produce about half our needs.

But the most annoying thing was he concluded with a triumphant

" You will be seeing more of this now we have regained our independence..." In front of thousands of people who've paid for a day out.

We never bloody lost independence mate. So, so annoying. So ignorant thinking joint regulation over environment, food etc means loss of independence. Then reinforcing that myth insidiously in front of thousands.

However screwing our economy and leaving us an American lapdog does impinge o our independence . I'm going to write to the show committee and complain. But the irritating this is no -one else seemed to bat an eyelid.

Hasenstein · 09/06/2018 20:33

LonelyPlanetMum

I think the location of the show might have something to do with it. With farmers in the deep-blue Tory shires he'll probably have thought he's preaching to the converted and just assumed everyone would naturally agree with him.Hmm

I can imagine how mad you felt about it, though. I'd have felt like throttling the smug bastard.

Drumknott · 09/06/2018 20:34

"My late father told me of how his NE wc family were literally barefoot and hungry for a few years during the 1920s / 1930s Depression
but such knowledge does not seem to have been widely passed down the generations.
Maybe that old generation wanted to forget the nightmare they suffered, felt shame, didn't want to distress their kids, because of course it could never happen again?"

How many members of the current cabinet are from families who would have suffered similarly? Certainly not Boris Johnson (not to mention JRM).

I think we can be quite certain leading Brexiteers do not fear their families going shoeless, either...

KennDodd · 09/06/2018 20:39

I think the general view is that if polling gets to 60% wanting to Remain the government will have to re-think.I don't think we're anything even close to that. Anyway, it's not up to us anymore, A50 can't be withdrawn, that gift belongs to the EU.

I actually heard somebody irl say 'they need us more than we need them' on Friday. How can people be so thick?

Danniz · 09/06/2018 20:47

Yes, electing multi-millionaire Old Etonians was a big mistake.

lonelyplanetmum · 09/06/2018 21:03

I think the general view is that if polling gets to 60% wanting to Remain the government will have to re-think.

My experience today in the Tory shires is that polling will never get to 60%. The false views are too ingrained. Thanks for your sympathy Hasenstein, but as posted up thread, there are to many people who will never see the utter shite we're heading into .They not only still want to go there but relish and celebrate it .What is wrong with them, I will never know. However I do know however bad things get, their own views will never be seen as part of the culpability matrix.

Our economy dribbling downwards will be the fault of something and some one else ...

SwedishEdith · 09/06/2018 21:19

twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1005498292296470528

'Arron Banks, the millionaire businessman who helped fund Brexit, had three meetings with the Russian ambassador to Britain — raising explosive questions about attempts by Moscow to influence the referendum result.

Emails by Banks and his sidekick Andy Wigmore, shown to The Sunday Times, reveal an extensive web of links between Banks’s Leave.EU campaign and Russian officials.'

No surprise to anyone who's been paying attention.

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