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Brexit

Westministenders: Stalling for Time

963 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/05/2018 14:32

After 14 defeats, the Withdrawal Bill exited the Lords. In much worse condition than anyone dared to predicted.

Now we have those who were viciously against Lords reform, all of a sudden shouting about how much we desperately need it. Well fancy that. Tradition isn't so attractive if you aren't getting your own way.

Daniel Hannan has suddenly admitted that Brexit is not 'going to plan' (there was one?) and Johnson is still his weekly resignation threat.

It now throws things back into Corbyn's court. The Tory Rebel Forces think that they have the numbers to stay in the Single Market, but are blocked by Corbyn's opposition to it.

The decision on the customs union has effectively been pushed back to the Autumn by May, but we have to make a decision about the Irish border by June or trade talks won't go ahead as planned.

The trouble is that the Cabinet can not decide on which option they want to take, but neither is particularly viable anyway. Max Fac means a border in the Irish Sea which the DUP won't like and the Customs Partnership isn't acceptable to the Empire Tories. In any case it seems unlikely that either option could get through the Commons in their current form due to the growing number of Tory Rebel Forces.

May also has a problem with the grass roots. It is more or less impossible for her to deliver the Brexit they desire whatever she tries.

The growing backlash about the hostile environment also undermines the point of Brexit in reducing immigration. Its is growing apparent, WHY we need immigration and that the people who are being targeted for deportation are simply the easiest to pick off and not the ones that people see as 'a problem'. Indeed you have to wonder about how many immigrants ARE a problem. The idea to control immigration after Brexit was not through the border but through the hostile environment, yet this seems now to be something that will be impossible to continue with politically.

Leave.EU have now been referred to the police for breaking Electoral Law. It also turns out that they found numerous ways to beat the spending limit legally. The female data controller has also been found to have data protection law. Meanwhile Banks and Wigmore as well as Nix (CA and SCL), Cummings (Vote Leave) and Silvester (AIQ) have all been summoned to appear because the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee. Zuckerberg also does not appear to have completed his answers to the committee as Facebook have had their homework deadline extended to Monday (and has been asked to appear by the 24th May whilst he is in Europe).

Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee Dates
Electoral Commission - Tuesday 15th May
Silvester - Wednesday 16th May
Cummings / Nix - Summoned to appear Tuesday 22nd May
Banks / Wigmore - Tuesday 16th June

Also in parliament in next weeks is and interesting looking ten minute rule bill named 'Representation of the People (Gibraltar)' - Tuesday 15th May

Anyway, we are all set for the predictable 'who blinks first' brinkmanship with the UK aware that if the EU don't blink we go over the cliff and parliament aware that if May delays long enough she bypasses parliamentary democracy or put it in a position with a gun to its head.

Who is looking forward to this year's 'row of the summer'?
It could be a long, hot summer.

Anyway, I want France to win Eurovision and the UK to get some points and not come last. Its not going to happen is it?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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GhostofFrankGrimes · 21/05/2018 16:23

Its only a small band of Brexiteers that suggest Ireland should leave the EU. Probably an admission that any border "solutions" won't work and they are trying to get some mileage out of another weak argument, as Ireland will never leave.

DGRossetti · 21/05/2018 16:23

.

Westministenders: Stalling for Time
woman11017 · 21/05/2018 16:49

#BrendaFBPE

Westministenders: Stalling for Time
DGRossetti · 21/05/2018 16:56

Funny how Brexit has inspired questions that I suspect some people really would prefer remained unasked.

Is there any point at which a Monarch might one day say to their elected government "not on your nelly" - on the grounds it might damage the Monarchy itself ?

If not, bluntly, what's the point of them ? They're not actually doing anything or adding value to the "democratic process" - just a ceremonial figurehead like any other European royal family with no power whatsoever.

woman11017 · 21/05/2018 17:22

Is there any point at which a Monarch might one day say to their elected government "not on your nelly" - on the grounds it might damage the Monarchy itself
Interesting question.
King of Lincolnshire doesn't have quite the same ring.

DGRossetti · 21/05/2018 17:26

Asking about the Monarchs powers seems a little analogous to asking about the possible use of Trident.

If we aren't ever going to use it, it's a waste of money.

If the Monarch will never refuse to do as the government says ....

mrsreynolds · 21/05/2018 17:34

Well the queens dresser might be a remainer....
Wasn't she quoted as being a leaver prior to the ref??

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 21/05/2018 17:43

Brenda was wearing Suffragette colours to the wedding, I did wonder if that was purposeful.

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 21/05/2018 17:54

@bbclaurak
Ken Livingstone quitting Labour Party

Really quitting? Or one of those ones where he'll be back in about 3 weeks?

Peregrina · 21/05/2018 17:59

Suffragette colours? I thought she was sporting UKIP colours!

mrsreynolds · 21/05/2018 18:03

Had suffragette colours at my wedding!

Very much on purpose 😁

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 21/05/2018 18:11

Well more the US colours of suffrage, but that seemed like a purposeful nod too.

mrsR I hope there were plenty of sashes on display Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 21/05/2018 18:56

My understanding of the current UK (unwritten) constitution is the monarch cannot interfere to prevent a govt
committing gross stupidity (or they would be intervening constantly !),
gross economic harm for ideological reasons
even callousness like abolishing the welfare state and the NHS

The monarch heads the armed forces, so has the ultimate power and must intervene to prevent the govt committing gross constitutional crimes or crimes against humanity, basically to prevent a dictatorship,

e.g. postponing a GE for party political reasons,
imprisoning the Official Opposition for ditto,
using the armed forces /intelligence services to kidnap / torture / assassinate opposition members,
setting up extermination camps for ethnic minorities or political opponents …

Brexit is stupid and harmful, but is not a crime against humanity and was chosen in a referendum.
So, it would be totally wrong for the Queen to openly stop it.
She may well be advising the PM in their private meetings, warning her against a Brexit that hammers trade. We'll never know that

OlennasWimple · 21/05/2018 20:12

Is there any point at which a Monarch might one day say to their elected government "not on your nelly" - on the grounds it might damage the Monarchy itself ?

HMQ has said that if Parliament were to pass a bill to abolish the monarchy, she would sign it on the grounds that that's how a democracy works

I agree with BigChoc's analysis - HMQ must step in to prevent a situation like Venezuala but must not interfere with democratically decided policy. But, it took years and years before the Commonwealth decided that Mugabe's actions were unacceptable Sad

RedToothBrush · 21/05/2018 20:41

'Quitting'

Or politely asked to leave to prevent another embarassing 'hitler' interview?

OP posts:
woman11017 · 21/05/2018 21:09

Or politely asked to leave to prevent another embarassing 'hitler' interview^
'prevent'?

@zhukov43
Replying to @faisalislam
How far into his interview did he mention Hitler?

@faisalislam
Third answer:

mathanxiety · 21/05/2018 21:41

Absolutely, KenDodd, they want a hard border. It astonished me that they stated they did not. The only reason for that statement was imo that they did not for whatever reason at that point want to spark a resumption of the Troubles that would be blamed on them.

mrsreynolds · 21/05/2018 22:10

Sadly not...mil got a bit uppity 😁
But lots of white, green and purple (church flower ladies unimpressed too!)

HesterThrale · 22/05/2018 07:10

City banks ask for a special visa waiver for staff from the continent.

Criteria could include a minimum salary threshold, while the number of employees sponsored in this way could be capped per company, the report suggests.
While the report insists its recommendations would benefits all sectors of the economy, the demand risks sparking a backlash against bankers.

Such a move could end up with higher-paid, professional, skilled staff being allowed in more easily. (Like in shortage areas such as education and health). But the UK's needs are for unskilled staff too.
Cutting off immigration before improving the country's own skillsbase (and improving training and productivity) seems like putting the cart before the horse. I guess this is why recruiters are shouting.
Backwards thinking.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/05/20/city-risks-backlash-plea-visa-waiver-bankers-brexit/amp/

DGRossetti · 22/05/2018 08:35

City banks ask for a special visa waiver for staff from the continent.

And so Brexit dies. Not with a bang, but a whimper.

SacrebleuLondres · 22/05/2018 09:53

@DGRossetti it's not over yet. A crash out accident can still happen. Corbyn is a danger in this regard.

DGRossetti · 22/05/2018 10:19

it's not over yet. A crash out accident can still happen

True.

But now bankers are starting to whine, and demand special treatment, it's game over. What happened to unicorn populated sunny uplands, if banks need to bypass the rules that are going to be enforced on the rest of us.

One thing - maybe the only thing that could revive the UKIP beast is if it starts becoming apparent that the liberal elite that UKIP so desperately persuaded non-voters to give a bloody nose to, are quietly just ignoring Brexit.

If a Tory Brexit means continued exemption and privilege for bankers, it's highly likely that a Labour Brexit might seem more appealing to some.

Tory Brexit ? Labour Brexit ? Or no Brexit ?

BigChocFrenzy · 22/05/2018 11:28

Without a deal on the NI border, there may be no transition
and even if there is a fudge - to allow E27 countries more time to prepare - there will almost certainly be only a minimal trade deal, CETA-like

So, it might be BINO for a few years for bankers, if the EU decides it needs the City for a while
But it could easily still be a crash Brexit for the lesser mortals

DGRossetti · 22/05/2018 12:12

www.theguardian.com/business/2018/may/21/brexit-blamed-for-dramatic-fall-in-uk-business-registrations

Britain’s decision to leave the European Union has sparked a dramatic fall in the number of French, Dutch and Belgian businesses registering in the UK, in a further illustration of Brexit’s impact on the UK economy.

Figures from Companies House show that French companies registered 48% fewer businesses in the UK in 2016-17 than the previous financial year while companies in Belgium registered 38% fewer. Companies in the Netherlands, which is probably the worst affected by Brexit of Britain’s trading partners, registered 52% fewer companies last year than in 2015-16.

The collapse in company registrations mirrors the reluctance of foreign companies to invest in the UK either by building new factories or buying UK businesses. OECD figures show that foreign direct investment into the UK tumbled in 2017 by 90% following a bumper year in 2016.

(contd)

CardinalSin · 22/05/2018 14:02

So we're already £900 per household per year worse off, according to Mark Carney. And we haven't even left yet...