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Brexit

Westministenders: Amber Alert

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/04/2018 19:25

The coming week is a busy one.

First on the menu is the fate of Amber Rudd, who after her long awaited fifth apology and denial that she saw a memo with targets on (and Brandon Lewis took the responsibility for her) ANOTHER leak has come out of a letter from her to the PM, talking about, you've guessed it Home Office targets.

She is to give a speech to the HoC on Monday. After avoiding the chop/resignation on Friday and receiving the PM's kiss of death with a "The Home Secretary has my full confidence" statement, rumours are most definitely not going away about her resignation.

If this happens, she is almost certain to go to the Naughty Corner to add to May's woes with the other rebels. This is not the week that May will appreciate it.

Watch out for Sajid Javid making more unsubtle hints that he wants the job and how it will be great PR for the party.

The EU withdrawal Bill is in the HoL again tomorrow. Last week it suffered numerous government defeats relating to the Customs Union and the limiting of Henry VIII powers. With the LDs and Labour control most of the house and together with cross benchers and the (to date no less than 17) Conservative Rebels, expect more defeats and amendments to be sent back to the Commons.

Today there is an amendment tabled by Viscount Hailsham (ex-MP Douglas Hogg) with Labour and Lib Dem support. It is being touted as a 'Lords Veto' to block Brexit by some, but is about making sure the government is held to account and does not overstep its powers by not consulting with parliament over final terms. It would in effect strengthen the power of the House of Commons (rather than the Lords) to influence the Withdrawal Bill.

So its quite a big and significant one.

If this wasn't enough, there is a key crucial vote over the Customs Union. Its been touted as Schrodinger's confidence vote. Its not the final vote on the matter (that's later in May) nor is a true confidence vote due to the Fixed Parliament Act, but at the same time it is a real test of May's commitment to leaving the Custom's Union and a real test of the resolve of the rebels. Last week several Conservatives who previously had not rebelled were dropping large hints they would, plus there is the fate of Rudd, who if she wants a future as an MP will find it difficult not to rebel due to her constituency being hugely remain and only having a majority of 300.

If May fails to follow through and bows to pressure from the rebels, Johnson and Davis have threatened to resign and there is some suggestion that letters will go to the 1922 Committee's Graham Brady.

May also has been put under significant pressure by Brexiteers to sack civil servant Ollie Robbins from the Cabinet Office (who has effectively taken over Brexit negotiations from Davis) because he's too Remainy got his hands tied with no where to go because reality.

Other things on the cards:
Tuesday: The Sanctions and Money Laundering Bill is back in the Commons. It might be worth a look at what goes on there (and who takes part).
Wednesday: Labour's Opposition Bill is about Windrush. Expect it to be last minute campaigning for the local elections every bit as much as about the scandal.
The Withdrawal Bill is in the Lords again.
Thursday: We get to listen to David Davis (if he hasn't resigned) making excuses in the HoC whilst in the Lords there is a debate on 'Brexit: Sanctions Policy' so another chance for them to point out great big wacking holes in government Brexit Policy.

Thursday is also the day of the Local Elections, so although Parliament adjourns on Thursday, we have a full day of spin on how Labour 'won' and are going plant magic money trees everywhere (to replace the ones they cut down in Sheffield no doubt) or how the campaign for bins now means that the Tories now have a 'mandate to leave the customs union'. Joy.

Also on the radar are sexual misconduct allegations against Labour's John Woodcock (the much hated by the left John Woodcock) and Labour and the expulsion of Marc Wadworth in the midst of the anti-Semitism row and threats the grass roots will revolt over it. Tuesday is also MayDay (a chequered day in Labour's history) and a mass resignation from the Labour Party by women is planned.

And I'm definitely not betting against there being a likely to be another scandal that rears its head because that's just British Politics at the moment.

But GOOD NEWS.

Eurovision starts next week!
(Israel have to be my fav - and are favs to win - but I do like our entry. Though this year looks to be a good year and our unashamed goodbye to the EU probably will be lost amongst them unless she pulls a blinder).

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Motheroffourdragons · 02/05/2018 08:28

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

lonelyplanetmum · 02/05/2018 08:33

If I were voting this week in local elections I don't think I would know who on earth to vote for.

It's easy LibDem. And I really, really never though that'd be me.

Labour need to split too. Creating more parties as in Germany.

Did Smogg say that even though he's vehemently opposed to any form of New Customs Partnership, he would or wouldn't really vote against the PM?

Motheroffourdragons · 02/05/2018 08:41

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

prettybird · 02/05/2018 08:41

JRM reveals his insert sweary word deliberate ignorance about NTBs on BBC Breakfast as he only talks about as yet not invented but "Apple" invents things every day technological solutions to the payment of tariffs.

Unless of course he is suggesting that we continue to follow every single EU regulation. In other words, as if we were in the Single Market. Or BINO.

No I don't think he was meaning that either Confused

So at best he is ignorant. At medium he is disingenuous. At worst he is lying. Hmm

My money is on the last option. Angry

lonelyplanetmum · 02/05/2018 08:51

It depends on your constituency.
In this constituency voting LibDem is a clear Hobson's choice.It is so finally balanced that in the General election there was a 47 Vote difference between the Tories and LibDems.

That split will be reflected with the locals. It boils down to how important sending a pro EU gesture is to you. If that's most important to you, you hold your nose over the past and vote LibDem, and / or Green.

LibDem local councillors have done an ok job in this constituency in the past anyway.

Plonkysaurus · 02/05/2018 09:03

@Lonely you're 100% right. Politics needs a radical overhaul, but those damn vested interests...

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 02/05/2018 09:08

I don't think I've come to a local election with a clear idea of who I'm voting for until this time. Lib dems and residents for me. Easy choice made by the actions of the local tory and Labour parties and lack of other candidates.

RedToothBrush · 02/05/2018 09:10

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
If 48 Tories MPs (perhaps brexiteers angry at the customs partnership) submitted letters of no confidence in Theresa May, and there was a no confidence vote amongst Tory MPs.....

...would she win? If she did, then what?

If I were a soft leaver/remainer I would not want a JRM nor a Johnson in charge.

I'd hedge my bets that backing may in the short term to get us past the first stage without a cliff edge that this would be the less worst / less risky line. You don't know what a tory election contest will bring in terms of new chaos.

You'd only risk it if all other options were out. You'd use rebel amendments to control May's lunacy because you would bet on having the commons majority to do it.

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RedToothBrush · 02/05/2018 09:12

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
Cabinet ministers to be told today no options will be ready on time - by Jan 2021 neither customs options will be up and running

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/febde7ce-4d82-11e8-820c-9146b8a57671
Theresa May takes on David Davis and Brexiteers over customs planning

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lonelyplanetmum · 02/05/2018 09:13

My dear departed Mum regularly used a word from the 1930's which has now changed meaning.

She used to say " Oh she's pixilated- she is." especially about one of my friends who was a bit eccentric and weird with no grip on reality.

Whenever I hear or see Smogg I just think "he's pixilated".

I just looked the word up Pixilated is an old, seldom-used expression dating from the US in the middle of the 19th century and peaking in the middle 20th century. It meant (1) crazed, bewildered, or whimsical, or (2) intoxicated.

RedToothBrush · 02/05/2018 09:14

Faisal Islam @ faisalislam
^... with no infrastructure, not only not being built yet, nor funded, nor even having received planning permission, nor even having planning permission applied for, with no space at the Channel Tunnel or Dover...

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lonelyplanetmum · 02/05/2018 09:29

Replies to that tweet are pertinent..

Andy Ballingall -Not building this infrastructure tells the EU one of two things:

a/ All the red lines are bluster for domestic consumption, and will be retracted to avoid disaster at the last moment

b/ The country is so sick that it genuinely intends massive self-harm for ideological reasons

RedToothBrush · 02/05/2018 09:42

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
When thinking about today’s cabinet subcommittee customs meeting remember:
1. Both gvt customs options already rejected by Brussels
2. Neither will be ready for 3-5 years anyway
3. Neither may ever work
4. The “partnership” might not buy off Tory customs rebellion

Enjoy!

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RedToothBrush · 02/05/2018 09:45

Sam Coates Times@ samcoatestimes
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prettybird · 02/05/2018 10:17

Andrew Ridgely lying again on "All Out Politcs" saying that there is no border between USA and Canada and that trucks go through unchecked (Adam Boulton did call him out on that one) and that the chief civil servants in the UK, Ireland and the EU have all said that technology can ensure a frictionless border.

Even if they could (and they can't - as has been acknowledged by all the pesky experts), that still doesn't address the issue of NTBs Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 02/05/2018 10:29

_ (paywall) Tories risk being locked out of London for generation in local elections, Cabinet ministers warn_

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/01/tories-risk-locked-london-generation-local-elections-cabinet/

The Tories risk being locked out of London for a generation, Cabinet ministers have privately warned amid concerns Thursday's local elections will be "hugely damaging" for Theresa May's leadership.

Senior Conservatives have admitted that the Tories could be decimated in London and even lose traditional strongholds such as Wandsworth and Westminster.
There is mounting concern that the backlash over Brexit in the Capital could be compounded by fury over the treatment of Windrush migrants threatened with deportation.

A Cabinet source said: "Fundamentally these local elections are an indicator of how the general public think the Government are doing.
This is a judgement on the Prime Minister, it has the potential to be hugely damaging.

"They [Number 10] might say it doesn't matter, that it's priced in, but it does.
Even the most optimistic projections look like a disaster.
We could be locked out of London for a generation."

Labour already dominates the capital, controlling 20 of London's boroughs compared to the Conservative's eight.
However polls have suggested that the Tories will lose heavily with even traditional strongholds Kensington and Chelsea and Hillingdon, the home of Boris Johnson's seat, at risk.
Over the last decade London has increasingly shifted towards Labour, amid concerns that the Tories are failing to appeal to ethnic minority voters.

Brandon Lewis, the Chairman of the Conservative Party, warned that if Tory supporters fail to get out and vote they will end up with "Bolsheviks in charge of your bins". Grin

RedToothBrush · 02/05/2018 10:29

Britain Elects @britainelects

The current attitude of [X] to immigration is...

Conservatives:
Too strict: 21%
Not strict enough: 44%
About right: 15%

Labour:
Too strict: 3%
Not strict enough: 48%
About right: 24%

via @YouGov

THIS is so revealing.

Look at the too strict numbers!

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DGRossetti · 02/05/2018 10:35

That survey missed the opening preamble:

"As a member of the public who knows fuck all about immigration, what are your views ...."

BigChocFrenzy · 02/05/2018 10:36

_ (paywall) John Curtice: Remainer anger could decimate the Tories in the London local elections_

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/05/remainer-anger-could-annihilate-tories-londons-local-elections/

It is little wonder that Conservatives in London are nervous of the outcome of next month’s borough elections.
The nation’s capital seems to have fallen out of love with the party.

In the general election last year, the Conservative vote across the capital fell by 1.7 points, well adrift of the 5.8 point increase in support that the party registered across Britain as a whole.
The party was left with just 33.1 per cent of the London-wide vote, more than ten points below the 43.5 per cent it won nationally.

The immediate cause of Londoners disenchantment with the Conservatives was Brexit.

Unlike the rest of England, voters in the capital backed Remain by as much as 60 per cent to 40 per cent.
After all the city has more young voters and graduates than any other part of Britain, and these were just the kind of voters most likely to vote Remain.

Meanwhile, one of the key patterns across the country in last year’s election is that those constituencies that voted heavily for Remain typically registered a drop in Conservative support;
Labour’s best performances were often to be found in such seats.
The swing away from the Conservatives in London simply reflected that nationwide pattern.

Given that twelve months on the merits of Brexit continue to be debated fiercely, there is every reason to anticipate that the issue could result in voters in London again swinging away from the Conservatives.

Even without Brexit, London has gradually become increasingly more difficult territory for the Conservatives.^
^
As our graph shows, as recently as 1992 the party won a higher share of the vote in the capital than it did across Britain as a whole.
But by 2015 that had turned into a three-point deficit.
Not least of the reasons is the party’s difficulty in winning support amongst ethnic minority voters who now constitute some one in three of the London electorate.

The real battlegrounds that will determine whether in the end the Conservatives look as though they have had a bad night in the capital are Wandsworth and Westminster.
Both boroughs have been part of the folklore of Conservative history ever since the party managed in 1990 to hold on to them against the national tide and make a bad set of local results look respectable.

Both voted heavily for Remain in 2016, but both also require a rather bigger swing to Labour – of some eight to nine points – than might be expected as a result of Brexit alone.
Defeat in these two boroughs would be bad news for London Tories – but may not be inevitable.

Westministenders: Amber Alert
DGRossetti · 02/05/2018 10:42

Yet another example of history reversing[1] (Robert Newman is clearly a god).

The Tories being pushed back to the shires, and cities returning to Labour/Whig control.

Watch out for a boundary commission report suggesting the return of rotten boroughs and reducing MPs for Manchester to the historic average of ... zero.

[1]Sexism back in fashion with racism as it's motorbike sidepal. Entropy slowly running things down ... renewed cold war ...

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 02/05/2018 10:43

So glad my MP is out there, fighting the good fight

Jack Maidment
‏*@jrmaidment*
Dominic Raab says the report of him getting the same lunch everyday is NOT TRUE.
"I have something different every day," he says.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/05/2018 10:45

The immigration poll illustrates Labour's Brexit problem:
for their voters it was even more about immigration than for Tory voters

Hence why Corbyn has started pandering to them

BUT neither party seems to take on board
that frictionless trade - which UK business desperately needs - requires the Single Market, which depends on the 4 pillars - including FOM

Otherwise, WTO rules, plus MFN conditions in the EUs existing FTAs, would wreck the Single Market.
The absolute hardest red line for the EU is ro protect their Single Market, on which their prosperity depends

Even the worst Brexit crash out is better for the EU than damaging the Single Market

DGRossetti · 02/05/2018 10:54

www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/02/facebook_saga_shows_us_cant_operate_in_splendid_isolation_says_top_eu_data_watchdog/

...
Buttarelli added that, in his view, the implications of Brexit on data protection “are being clearly underestimated” in the UK.
(contd)

Another area which will need (if not now, very soon) some of that attention which is in short supply.

One thing Brexiteers need to be clear on (they won't be). If the UK cannot reach a deal, the EU will not cut us any slack whatsoever. Any goodwill we may have had has been pissed away by the clearly less-than-serious-way the has been non-negotiating. Hardly "good faith".

If the EU was like a school class, the UK is currently the class joker that's been disrupting lessons despite several warnings that will be amazed and outraged when it's not allowed on the class trip.

While researching this, I believe I have found the "go-to" manual for UK negotiations. As always, hidden in plain sight ....

(watch the pitch action ...)

RedToothBrush · 02/05/2018 10:56

Peston on FB
^The thing about the Brexit war cabinet, which meets this afternoon, is that the "war" in its nickname refers not to the challenge of leaving the EU but the dreadful state of relations between the ministers on it.
Because they are utterly divided on which of two customs plans - a so-called New Customs Partnership or Max Fac (for maximum facilitation) - the government should negotiate with Brussels.^

And to make matters even more surreal, neither of these proposals solve the Irish border problem.

Which means that the PM has got herself into the tragi-comic position of being surrounded by ministers who might flounce out of the cabinet if they are forced to adopt the customs plan they dislike - while simultaneously risking the complete collapse in June of Brexit negotiations with EU governments, because those governments have threatened to go on strike if she cannot prove there is progress in sorting the Ireland mess.

And to add national insult to her personal injury, the questions being so hotly debated by foreign secretary, Brexit secretary, trade secretary, chancellor and the rest are arrangements that are so fiendishly technical and complicated that learning about them is the political equivalent of reading the manual for your new washing machine.

So here is my heroic (thank me later) and doomed attempt to distil the small print into an issue that most of us can understand: the New Customs Partnership is supposed to be a technological and bureaucratic solution to enjoying the benefits of being in the Customs Union while simultaneously leaving it.

The basic mechanics are these.

Under the NCP, goods entering the UK from non-EU countries would be liable to the tariffs owed to the EU - but if those goods were actually destined for the UK market market, not the EU single market, then the UK customer would end up getting a rebate or paying more, depending on whether UK tariffs were actually higher or lower than EU ones.

In other words, the UK would be the EU's tariff collector, while having that ability - deemed so precious by the Brexiters - to set tariffs different from the EU's own ones

Now I have absolutely no idea whether you understand those preceding paragraphs. I am not 100% certain I do.

However the nub is this: the NCP is supposed to remove any need for tariffs to be levied on any goods passing from the UK to the EU at any of the UK's borders with the EU - so no tariffs to be levied at Dover, or between Northern Ireland and the Republic, and so on.

NCP would therefore be a boon to multinationals with global supply chains. And it would keep the Ireland border more permeable and softer than it would otherwise be.

But - and it's a huge "but" - there would be big bureaucracy for British firms, as they would subsequently have to claim tariff rebates or pay higher tariffs, depending on whether the UK had better or worse trade deals with the likes of South Korea and Canada.

And it is not clear that the system can actually be put into practice, because HMRC is a million miles from having the capability to track at the border whether goods coming in to the UK have the UK or the EU as their final destination - which would be necessary to ensure that the correct tariffs are ultimately paid.

For what it's worth, HMRC has been giving briefings over the past couple of days to Brexit committee members on the fiendish logistics of all this.

The biggest "but" of all is this: the NCP on its own does not keep the Ireland border completely open or solve the entire threat to global supply chains.

Because the reason for border checks, according to the EU's lore and law, is not tariffs, it is product standards and quality.

Or to put it another way, the underpinning of Europe's single market are its uniform business rules to ensure dodgy goods and services aren't sold anywhere within that market.

And the EU will insist on border checks, in Ireland and at Dover, if the UK does not pledge to adhere to those standards - either through remaining a member of the single market, which the PM has rejected, or through some other route which the PM thinks exists, but the rest of the EU does not.

To that extent, the NCP is a red herring.

But so too is Maximum Facilitation - though it's probably a more honest red herring.

In that Maximum Facilitation is simply a series of bureaucratic techniques to minimise border checks - such as authorising some firms as "trusted traders" which could ship goods frictionlessly back and forth over borders, and pre-notifying HMRC electronically about impending shipments.

The point about Max Fac is it recognises there will have to be some border infrastructure.

That, of course, is anathema to the Republic of Ireland and - in theory - to the rest of the EU.

One implication is that this whole row about NCP versus Max Fac is displacement activity.

Why?

Well what the PM really needs to do is stand up publicly and admit that Brexit will require border checks in Ireland, precisely because of her red lines that the UK cannot stay in both the single market and customs union.

^To pretend otherwise is absurd and will ultimately be unsustainable.
Somehow she has to persuade the EU that those border checks would be subtle and inconspicuous enough so as not be a serious repudiation of the Good Friday Agreement and would not lead to a resumption of armed conflict in Northern Ireland.^

Why won't she make that case, why won't she give that speech?

Presumably because she doesn't really believe it. Instead she simply repeats, as mantra, that the border will be kept open and the Good Friday Agreement honoured - without saying how.

In a way therefore it suits her to have the world focus on how Johnson, Gove, Fox, Williamson, Davis and Javid are all massive NCP sceptics - while NCP has her backing and that of Whitehall (in the form of the main Brexit official, Olly Robbins), and of the Chancellor (and it would have been supported by Amber Rudd, if she hadn't resigned as home secretary).

However emotional and passionate that argument that may be - and it could yet lead to the resignation of the foreign secretary, although he has almost resigned more times than most of us have enjoyed paid employment - it is much less dangerous than the argument over Ireland.

Because if she missteps on Ireland, parliament would turn against her and bring her down.

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Hasenstein · 02/05/2018 10:57

RTB

Those immigration poll figures are truly appalling. People seem to be illogically scared of foreigners and want to keep them well away from their homesteads.

I've just come back from a weekend away with our tennis club. Over dinner one of the people (very wealthy woman in her early 70s) said Tories might be making a mess of things, but she was "terrified" that Corbyn would get in. Nothing short of wholesale Communist confiscation of property would affect her, but she's swallowed Heil/Telegraph scare stories hook, line and sinker.

So you have arch Tories wanting to keep foreigners out because they seem to have a visceral loathing/fear of outsiders and Labour voters blindly accepting the line that foreigners will take away their jobs.

In fact, it's not just foreigners. The prevalent attitude here (South East Tory shire) is that they don't like foreigners, Scots, Irish, Welsh, northerners or anyone from Croydon! Why do these people even want a United Kingdom? They may as well go back to their tribal boundaries and start fortifying their villages.