Westminstenders: Throwing Boomerangs

[RedToothBrush]

British politics and media in a nutshell.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boomerang_effect_(psychology)#Political_beliefs

No EU progress, no discussion. Just this. Keep everyone in line by bouncing boomerangs.

Disaster capitalism looms, they just have to get us to the edge of the cliff before the centre reforms. That's it.

If the legal roads to stop Brexit are closed as David Allen Green says, then how do you force the political flood gates to open, especially with both the far left and the far right using micro-aggression against the public to keep the centre ground weak?

Answers on a ballot paper on 3rd May.

Nearly had to turn off Radio 2 this morning: Phil Redmond was complaining about people opposed to Brexit still just coming up with problems, and that because it was a negotiation, "something would be worked out just before the end" and "they need us too" and "something will be worked out for the NI border".

He'd be right at home in the Brexit Arms

Some EU countries have them don't they?

Yes and the context of why they adopted them (why and when) is important. The UK by nature has always tended to be much more bureaucratic than many other EU countries. Its a cultural tendancy. I'm sure others on the thread will be able to explain how you get one in other countries.

The UKs love of bureaucracy (which we led in the EU on many matters) combined with the hostile environment and rising authoritarianism is not a culture in which I would like to see identity cards rolled out.

It is a recipe for more issues not less despite the intent. The idea is good in the minds of those who have the mentality that the system works. It clearly isn't working for everyone. The solution is to fix the problems not come up with something which will suffer from the same institutional issues and political blindness and tone deafness.

Identify the problem: the windrush generation have difficulty providing evidence of their legitimacy

Bringing in ID cards to solve that problem is effectively asking the windrush generation to potentially provide evidence of their legitimacy to solve the issue of them having difficulty providing the evidence of their legitimacy.

It doesn't work.

Reducing every issue to the actual problem and then asking if the solution actually fits is what politicians should be doing, but what they do instead is come up with a solution and then try and get it to fit to the problem. Hence our car crash of politics now.

Phil Redmond- I thought he was sound going on to do loads of community based helping in Liverpool etc?

On the passport/ driving licence system for voting , I thought I’d look up how voting, identity etc works in other countries. As Germany is successful at most things and we've good friends there,I picked them.

Elections are run by volunteers who check the voter's ID and cross reference the official register and then hand voters their ballot and an envelope. The voter enters a screened-in desk set up for the process to mark the ballot. Voting is done with pen and paper, the results are counted by hand like they are here.

I looked at visas etc too, for non EU migration you need certain levels of German proficiency.

Somehow what works in Germany would seem too big brotherish over here though .

http://www.dw.com/en/german-election-volunteers-organize-the-voting-and-count-the-ballots/a-40562388

http://www.germany-visa.org/immigration-germany/

Sorry cross posted.

I completely agree bringing in ID cards ...is effectively asking the Windrush generation to potentially provide evidence of their legitimacy to solve the issue of them having difficulty providing the evidence of their legitimacy.

I agree completely that doesn't work, unless of course,we give identity cards to everyone already here now.

Then introduce a new more other EU like system could be introduced for the future?

However as I said the German system seems too big brotherish.

Maybe we are just island mentality misfits and deserve to be left isolated and struggling on our little island.

"We already ask that people prove who they are in order to collect a parcel from the post office, rent a car, or travel abroad"

However, that's everyone, not just immigrants
If the UK wishes to retain frictionless trade, i.e. Single Market, it cannot discriminate between E27 citizens and UK ones.

I think I heard that the government is going to require all EU migrant residents to have biometric ID. How's THAT going to work?

The German ID system is not onerous, but it has infrastructure behind it.

My first job in Germany, late 80s, I had to obtain an ID card:

I went to the town hall (no appointment) with 2 passport-type photos
Filled in a simple 1-page form and payed DM15 (It's probably €20 or more now)
and took away my new ID card

This had to be renewed every 5 years, but was free

It relied on the German system where everyone goes to the townhall to register their address whenever they move.
However, with UK council tax, people have to register anyway, just online

There were no ID cards requires for EU citizens here after 2000, due to Single Market FOM etc so I just use my UK passport for ID

btw, the equivalent of council tax here is "Grundsteuer" which is paid according to the property, not the number of people AND is paid by the owner, not tenants (included in the rent)

AND is about 10% of UK council tax, e.g. when I owned & let a flat, I paid €140 per YEAR
The higher German income tax is partly due to much more central tax going to the regions to pay for what UK council tax does

With my lovely German surname, I can see that going to have to produce my British passport with increasing regularity

ID cards through the back door - in practice if not by law

Just as well we own our house and don't need to rent

I'm half waiting for one of the banks I bank with to freeze my account until I "prove" my right to be here. After all, one of the accounts was opened 40 years ago when I went to Uni, before any of the money laundering regulations were introduced. The other account (joint with dh - different bank) was opened 25 years ago - again, I'm not sure they ever saw a passport

Would the German system work here?

Red's comment was interesting...

Reducing every issue to the actual problem and then asking if the solution actually fits is what politicians should be doing, but what they do instead is come up with a solution and then try and get it to fit to the problem.

Was there even a problem with entitlement to vote anyway? It smacks more to me of a certain political party being worried about the locals, and trying to monitor the voting profile due to EU passport holders entitlement to vote in locals.

The ID card system seems to work fine for my French friends and neighbours (I can't speak for the whole population). They renew them in the nearest town and I don't think it costs anything apart from the photos. The Gendarmes do check when they do routine car checks etc. We are supposed to carry UK passports at all times but now have our permanent residents cards which seem to work ok. They have digitised photos and embedded fingerprints.
Most people seem to use ID cards for travel in Europe rather than passports.

Was there even a problem with entitlement to vote anyway? It smacks more to me of a certain political party being worried about the locals, and trying to monitor the voting profile due to EU passport holders entitlement to vote in locals.

No there wasn't a problem. That's really the point. Examples of electoral fraud are incredibly rare. The weakest point in the system is probably postal voting not attending a polling booth. Ironically older voters are the most likely to postal vote I believe.

In answer to Hester about the biometric data -
To get our permanent residents cards in France we went to the Préfecture 50km away with a thick dossier each, proving more than five years residence in France (actually 13 years). We had five years of tax forms, electricty bills, bills for local taxes, birth and marriage certificates translated by a sworn translator, proof of pension income, proof of health cover, bank statements and photographs. It cost us about 150€ for the certificates, but the cards were free. We had a 45 minute interview about all the paperwork and had our fingerprints taken on a machine.
Six weeks later we went to collect the cards. I think the dossiers took us about 60 hours to collate and it was all pretty stressful.
This is in a country which is renowned for its bureacracy and is set up to process ID cards for everyone. The paperwork required is different in every préfecture. We have these cards as EU citizens but were assured it would make it much easier to change over to non EU citizens cards later.

I think I heard that the government is going to require all EU migrant residents to have biometric ID. How's THAT going to work?

so we're back to the brain-dead:

OFFICIAL: "Can you show me your ID, sir/madam ?"
SIR/MADAM: "I don't need one. I'm a UK citizen."
OFFICIAL: "Very good, Sir/Madam. Have a good day."

You certainly don't get to vote here in France without ID card or passport in our case. As a local councillor I had to officiate at elections and it was very strict even though we only have about 50 voters and everyone knows or is related to everyone else!

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/91536bfe-45ae-11e8-a171-006f480ab6fd
Brexit: Theresa May ‘may surrender over customs union’

Theresa May’s team has privately admitted she may have to accept permanent membership of a European customs union, after a secret wargaming exercise concluded that even Brexiteers such as Michael Gove and David Davis would not resign in protest.

The prime minister has insisted that the UK will leave the common tariff area so it can pursue free trade deals outside the EU. But one of May’s political team told a meeting on March 20 that she and senior aides “will not be crying into our beer” if parliament forces the government’s hand — a position that will enrage some Brexiteers.

Interesting.

Not that May's aides have a great track record...

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-picks-fantasist-mandy-richards-rapped-by-court-to-fight-worcester-marginal-zrls7p058
Labour picks fantasist Mandy Richards, rapped by court, to fight Worcester marginal

The newly selected Labour parliamentary candidate for the marginal seat of Worcester is a fantasist who has been placed under 14 extended civil restraint orders by the High Court.

Mandy Richards is banned from bringing court actions without a judge’s permission after false and vexatious claims against MI5, MI6, the Metropolitan police, the army, Thames Water, her gas, electricity and broadband suppliers, Royal Mail, Hackney council, her GP and the freeholder of her flat.

Richards, a strong supporter of Jeremy Corbyn, said the organisations placed her under surveillance, tampered with her car and bicycle, interfered with her mail, invaded her home or failed to protect her from attempts to poison her because of her political views.

The claims were dismissed as “totally without merit” and most of the defendants were granted restraint orders barring new claims.

Richards said her claims were dismissed “because she was a black woman”.

Richards was a Labour candidate in the 2016 London assembly election and also brought a High Court petition to challenge the result, alleging a conspiracy to cheat her involving the returning officer and Progress, Labour’s centrist group.

In a two-day hearing, she said “state-sponsored organised crime” in the case had “the potential to trigger a major national public scandal” and forced 13 witnesses, including her MP, the shadow home secretary, Diane Abbott, to give evidence in person.

Abbott said she was an “obsessive” whose claims about the election “cannot be true”.

Dismissing Richards’s case, the election commissioner, John Bowers QC, said she had pursued “conspiracy hypotheses” that were “totally unfounded”. He also criticised her for not turning up to court on time. Her actions are estimated to have cost taxpayers £500,000 in court time and legal fees.

Worcester is held by the Tory Robin Walker with a majority of less than 2,500.

Richards declined to comment.

What the actual hell?

I had to check this out for legitimacy. Here is the court record for the 2016 high court case:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2017/37.html

4. The most extraordinary feature of this evidence however is that all bar one of the persons whom Ms Richards called doubted Ms Richards' case and they gave evidence which was directly or indirectly contradictory (and often hostile) to that case. Interestingly, Ms Abbott MP (whose political views might have appeared aligned to those of Ms Richards and was her constituency MP for many years) made it clear that if she had been asked by Ms Richards she would have advised he against bringing this Petition. Although she did not ask for any of these witnesses to be treated as "hostile", I did allow her to in effect cross examine these witnesses.

5. I put particular weight on Ms Diane Abbott's evidence as an experienced politician. She said at various points in her testimony
a. "Just to say that you did not advise me you were going to take this petition. Had you asked my advice I would have argued against it".
b. "Ms. Richards, you are trying to say that internal Labour Party issues in some way affected the adjudication of the election, and I am saying that cannot be true.
Q. Why do you say it cannot be true?
A. Because I have fought many elections, and I am as confident as I can be that this election did not have administrative faults. That is not something I have experienced. And as I say, how can you link -- you know, issues that at work, issues about electronic emissions in your house, issues about the Labour Party, with the technical adjudication of this election?"
Q. "THE COMMISSIONER: Ms. Abbott, I just have one question if I may. You said I think that had Ms. Richards asked you about the petition, you would have advised against her bringing it. Can you just explain?
A. "To be honest with you, Ms. Richards has become an obsessive."

What on earth are Labour thinking?!

The twitter comments about the insanity of this i've seen have come from Labour.

Can't find anything recent about biometric ID for EU residents. There's been a lot of confusion and the Govt are now saying people won't need to give fingerprints.

The PM said that from the second half of 2018 there will be a “transparent, smooth and streamlined” process to allow EU citizens to apply for “settled status." She said the process will cost no more than a passport, which is £72.50 for a standard adult version.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/2822423/eu-citizens-uk-after-brexit-visas-numbers-britain/amp/

I just can't believe 'the transparent, smooth and streamlined process' bit. Who are they trying to kid? It will be an omnishambles if they try to register 3.6 million people.

... in February 2018 it emerged the system to register new EU migrants may not be ready by Brexit. Officials said a separate scheme is needed to the one that registers existing European citizens.

I don't believe they have the capacity for this. They also need to think of a procedure that complies with the GDPR.

They should use the simple ID type that I had before 2000 and renewable every 5 years
I hope this is what happens in Germany post-Brexit - just that I have to get this card again

No fingerprints
Just colour photos, DOB, height for the "biometric" part - which were all checked against my passport

then address, place of birth
The whole form to fill in was 1 A4 side
Details were on a simple database

I suspect that would be sufficient for nearly all except professional criminals, who always seem to get good fake ID however stringent the ID

Japan ambassador’s Brexit warning: there won’t be a deal better than the single market

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/22/koji-tsuruoka-japan-ambassador-britain-brexit-single-market

“We have 1,000 companies operating in the UK today funded by Japanese capital
It accelerated after Margaret Thatcher promoted the UK as the ‘gateway to Europe’ for Japanese firms.

The total Japanese investment to the EU’s 28 countries is of course huge,
but out of 28 countries the UK alone now absorbs about 40% of total Japanese investment destined for the EU.”
…
“One thing I can say for certain, based on fact, is that the companies operating today in the UK are not expanding their investment in the UK today.”

Huge Japanese firms with big plants in the UK – such as Nissan and Toyota, who sell most of their British-made cars into the EU – are, he says, treading water

biding their time before deciding whether to relocate part or all of their businesses,
so they can continue to be based inside the single market after March 2019.

More on red's link (ST paywall)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/91536bfe-45ae-11e8-a171-006f480ab6fd
…
In the crunch meeting — attended by Oliver Robbins, May’s chief Brexit negotiator -
officials predicted Gove and Davis would accept that outcome while only Boris Johnson and Liam Fox would be likely to quit.
The foreign secretary has publicly said staying in a customs union would be “worse” than remaining in the EU.

Gove’s stance was confirmed by four sources who have discussed the issue with the environment secretary.
“Michael is not ready to roll over in cabinet,” one said, “but he recognises that the arithmetic is difficult.”

The revelations will be greeted with anger by hardline Brexiteers around Jacob Rees-Mogg,
who have privately warned Tory whips that remaining in a customs union would prompt a leadership challenge.

A source familiar with the discussion said:
“They sat in a room in 9 Downing Street when they were discussing Brexit and Olly Robbins came in.

The discussion focused on what to do if parliament votes to stay in a customs union.
Someone from the political unit at No 10 said:

‘We wouldn’t cry into our beer if we were forced to do this.’
The PM needs to go through the choreography of trying to leave but we might be forced to do it.”

Robbins has been pushing for customs union membership as a way of preventing a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

The source added:
“The civil service fast stream have a pool on who is going to resign first.
All the money is on Liam Fox and then Boris.”

Members of May’s Brexit war cabinet will meet on Wednesday to discuss trade before finalising the UK’s stance ahead of a crunch EU summit on June 29.

Fintan O’Toole: Three-state union may be answer to Brexit

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-three-state-union-may-be-answer-to-brexit-1.2734041

Welcome to SCINI

Shame the Queen blotted her copybook by dragooning the Commonwealth into having Charles. Now no-one will care if she's upset at the UK breaking up.

Ah well ...

I have a theory that the Queen unusually was so open about her preference on such a political matter was so that Theresa May couldn't then claim the credit. I don't think that there is any love lost between the two women.

You certainly don't get to vote here in France without ID card or passport in our case.

France v different as all adults legally have to have ID, and it is provided free of charge by the state in a process that is extremely simple (a short appointment at your local town). In the UK many people from less privileged backgrounds, or older people, may have no photo ID at all.