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Brexit

Westminstenders: Throwing Boomerangs

960 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2018 18:42

British politics and media in a nutshell.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boomerang_effect_(psychology)#Political_beliefs

No EU progress, no discussion. Just this. Keep everyone in line by bouncing boomerangs.

Disaster capitalism looms, they just have to get us to the edge of the cliff before the centre reforms. That's it.

If the legal roads to stop Brexit are closed as David Allen Green says, then how do you force the political flood gates to open, especially with both the far left and the far right using micro-aggression against the public to keep the centre ground weak?

Answers on a ballot paper on 3rd May.

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BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2018 17:32

It's leaving the SM that's the main problem
SM + a customs arrangement would ensure frictionless trade

However, imo it would have to be for the whole of the UK (with minor modifications for NI) , because a wet border with GB would cripple the NI economy

  • they have several times more trade with GB than RoI
BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2018 17:34

btw: I wonder if peers and other politicians are referring to the CU when they mean SM, because SM is apparently toxic to Tory Leavers Hmm
SM really is the key

BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2018 17:37

Norway is in SM but not CU - border delays for goods are 1-2 hrs
Turkey is in a CU, but not SM - border delays of 12 to 36 hours

SM + a form of CU is what we need

Icantreachthepretzels · 21/04/2018 18:32

Has this article been posted?
www.nytimes.com/2018/04/21/world/europe/uk-vote-brexit-referendum.html

I also saw that the Daily Express, of all newspapers, printed an article about how trade deals with the commonwealth might take a century to sort out.

And apparently Vince Cable is urging the SNP to back a second vote. That was reported on the BBC

maybe - at a glacial rate - things are shifting.

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2018 19:50

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-immigration-policies-ministers-responsibility-video-windrush-latest-a8314811.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#link_time=1524331898
Theresa May talks about ministers ‘taking responsibility’ over immigration policies in resurfaced video clip
Ms May says she is 'sick and tired' of Labour ministers 'not taking responsibility'

What Theresa said in 2004 about how ministers should resign over immigration fuck ups.

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RedToothBrush · 21/04/2018 20:26

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/windrush-generation-home-office-theresa-may-2014-amber-rudd-a8315676.html
Home Office under Theresa May was urged to act on problems for the Windrush generation in 2014.

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RedToothBrush · 21/04/2018 20:27

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/21/in-britain-the-richer-you-are-the-better-your-chance-of-justice
In Britain now, the richer you are, the better your chance of justice

Our legal system once looked after everyone. But increasingly, it is only for the wealthy

Last week, Southwark crown court began hearing the case of Das insurance company against its former CEO, Paul Asplin, who it accuses of passing business to companies in which he had a financial interest. He is pleading not guilty and the case continues. Whatever the verdict, one feature already stands out: Das is bringing a private criminal prosecution. So are many other companies. Britain now has its first firm of private prosecutors: Edmonds Marshall McMahon, set up by former government lawyers. They realised that cuts to specialist crime teams meant many fraud cases could not and would not be pursued by the state. The demand for their services is so strong they are receiving six inquiries a day.

Before the formation of the police, prosecutions came about as private individuals, normally the victims of the crime took the person thought to have committed a crime to the parish constable or magistrate. This convention of law went back hundreds of years and continued even after the formation of the police force in the Victorian Era with most prosecutions still started by private citizens.

The concept of the state pursuing prosecutions of the criminals on behalf of anyone, is a modern concept.

The fact that we can continue to bring private prosecutions is a legacy of this history and it sounds remarkably like we are returning to this as starting to be the norm in certain areas of law.

When you look at so many aspects of current politics and society, it looks like we are returning to the early part of the Victorian Era, or before...

It is truly a frightening prospect.

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RedToothBrush · 21/04/2018 20:39

Nicholas Kristof @ Nickkristof
A number of videos like this circulating, apparently from #Riyadh near the palace. Lots of reports of upheaval in Saudi Arabia, nothing confirmed. And remember to be suspcicous of unconfirmed reports. In any case, tweeps in Riyadh, please be careful.

Gunfire in Saudi Capital.

Worth reflecting on Saudi Arabia having such a young population and one of the highest rates of twitter usage in the world.

Plus there was the recent crack down by the saudi crown prince (who some say was given information by the trump administration administration which enabled him to do so).

Is there something afoot?

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RedToothBrush · 21/04/2018 21:23

Latest Cadwalladr story

amp.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/21/arron-banks-insurance-personal-data-leave-eu?__twitter_impression=true
Arron Banks, the insurers and my strange data trail
Carole Cadwalladr just wanted to insure her car. Six months later, she found a mass of personal details held by a firm she had never contacted that is run by Leave.EU’s biggest donor, Arron Banks. How did it get there?

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BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2018 22:11

Can Jacob Rees-Mogg become Britain’s 55th prime minister - and Eton’s 20th?

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/can-jacob-rees-mogg-become-britains-55th-prime-minister-and-etons-20th

"The Archbishop of Brexit is edging closer towards the leadership of a country which is unexpectedly, bizarrely but unmistakably - within his grasp

Like all winning populist politicians, from Donald Trump to Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg is a carefully created persona, a semi-permanent work of performance art.

His words and deeds are calibrated to perfect that seemingly-spontaneous air that today qualifies an “authentic” figure, who lies outside a despised and discredited mainstream.
Anything likely to impinge on the persona must be ruthlessly avoided or abandoned.

It is less than two years since the “peasants’ revolt” of the Brexit vote did for Britain’s 19th Etonian prime minister,
but the bookies now tell us that the most likely next occupant of No 10 would be the 20th.
(As I write, Rees-Mogg is 4/1 as the next PM with Ladbrokes, which puts him not only ahead of the rest of the Tory field, but of the opposition leader, Jeremy Corbyn)

A country that closed its ears to Cameron because he seemed too out of touch, is - if Ladbrokes is right - about to embrace the member for the 18th century.
So how on Earth did we get here?"


< We keep assuming that Tory MPs would vote for other candidates to prevent him reaching the final 2 that the party members vote on.
However, remember how Labour MPs cocked up and let Corbyn's name go forward

Doesn't even take a cockup, just "enemy action:"
ERG support should ensure JRM becomes one of the final 4 in the rounds of voting, possibly even the final 3.
After this, it is very possible to nobble 1 or even 2 of the candidates, since so many seem to have embarrassing skeletons; it is also possible one of the whips might use embarrassing info at a critical moment >

lonelyplanetmum · 21/04/2018 22:23

This letter has been doing the rounds on Facebook.

Apparently sent to all on the dwindling Conservative mailing list.

Westminstenders: Throwing Boomerangs
BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2018 22:47

"Dear Angela" - was this sent to Merkel ? Grin
She is a conservative too, the sensible type

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2018 23:26

Cliff edge letter...

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Icantreachthepretzels · 22/04/2018 00:22

wait a minute ... they actually put 'let me be clear' into a letter? Is Theresa purposefully parodying herself, or is she just a fuckwit?

...actually, there's no need to answer that one.

lonelyplanetmum · 22/04/2018 05:00

I was worried that letter I posted yesterday was fake news. I was disheartened as I'd just seen it just put up on FB.

The letter is genuine. It was sent out to the Tory faithful. It really did use the expression " Let me be clear" too!

BUT, interestingly, it was not sent this week ( when it was posted). It was sent six months ago.

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/may-tells-mps-shes-listening-carefully-to-tories-on-brexit-bill-a3691816.html

Perhaps as they say a week ( x 24) is a long time in politics. I can't see a letter like that being sent now. Not after all the CA stuff, the acknowledgement of the cost of leaving, the Lords defeat etc and now just before the locals.

So sorry for posting old news. It does really illustrate a slow shift of approach over six months though.

If I understand it correctly, Party policy tracks and follows public opinion - there really does seem to be movement since last November.

TheElementsSong · 22/04/2018 06:41

That letter Shock!

If anybody asks me the definition of hubris, I might just link them to that...

RedToothBrush · 22/04/2018 08:20

amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/21/identity-checks-election-disenfranchise-ethnic-minorities?__twitter_impression=true
Tories in new race row over identity checks for elections
New rules ‘will deter migrant voters’, watchdog claims, adding to Windrush scandal

Voter suppression. Alive and well. Just like in the US.

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prettybird · 22/04/2018 08:43

Yet again they show how they live in a different world....

"We already ask that people prove who they are in order to collect a parcel from the post office, rent a car, or travel abroad"

Says someone from the Cabinet Office who no doubt has a driving licence and a passport Hmm

lonelyplanetmum · 22/04/2018 08:50

What gets me is that there seems little time or effort for anything (other than relinquishing membership of a very beneficial trade and peace Union).

Yet if it is something that may affect the Tory vote such as excluding some voters, then there is time for it.These new government voting rules, are only being trialled in several local authorities .

The article says people will be asked at polling stations to produce documents proving their identity – such as a passport or driving licence – before casting their vote. Surely on a trial voters in those random authorities can't then be disenfranchised if they haven't the documents?

In my experience the main people this will disenfranchise is the elderly and the poor. For example, I sadly had to take away my Father's driving licence, then my Mother's licence and both their passports lapsed. There was no point renewing them as they weren't fit enough to travel. I bet nursing homes are full of voters with outdated passports and lapsed driving licences.

There are also people who can't afford cars or to travel abroad so do not pay to renew their passport which is expensive.

Peregrina · 22/04/2018 08:57

Sorry, haven't read the Guardian link re disenfranchisement because I'm just off out, but this would also affect many elderly voters, who tend to vote Tory. Passport? Haven't renewed because haven't travelled abroad since 1990. Driving licence? Got to 70 and didn't renew because felt no longer safe driving. Bus pass - not applied for because not mobile enough to get to the bus stop, and the buses are infrequent anyway. My parents have passed away now, but this describes them during the last 10 -15 years of their lives, and they were ones who always voted.

lonelyplanetmum · 22/04/2018 09:00

Sorry I cross posted Pretty.

I cross posted, and crossly too. I knew two live in Carers one in her 60's who had never driven and hadn't renewed her passport due to the cost and lack of need.The other did drive but didn't bother with a passport.

Am now wondering if we do need identity cards? I'd always found the idea sinister? Perhaps they'd help shut up the illegal immigration exaggerators? I guess the answer to whether they are a good idea or not depends upon whose hands the system is in, and as we have seen the Home office under the current govt can't be trusted with anything.

I've been joking with some school Mum friends that given the tendency to avoid open debate and the Henry VIII powers, and then the heatwave, is it possible that there has been a secret decision to trial abolishing Spring?

RedToothBrush · 22/04/2018 09:02

Shadow Brexit Team @ shadowbrexit
NEW: @Keir_Starmer writes to Theresa May urging her to settle the question about the UK’s future customs arrangement with the EU “once and for all”
Read coverage of the letter in today’s @thesundaytimes
www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-theresa-may-may-surrender-over-customs-union-lr7qkhslv
Further coverage of Labour’s demand is also on @HuffPostUKPol
m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/labour-brexit-customs-union-vote_uk_5adb32c0e4b075b631e6185b/
Labour Challenges May To Hold Customs Union Vote This Week To Settle Issue 'Once And For All'
Sir Keir Starmer has written to the Prime Minister

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RedToothBrush · 22/04/2018 09:06

Lonely, how do you get an identity card?

Do you really think that will help people whose current immigration status is not to have a British Passport or happen to be not white, or poor or unwell in some way.

How will you get your identity card?

Do you think more bureaucracy is the solution to problems with bureaucracy?

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lonelyplanetmum · 22/04/2018 09:13

As an aside...I also thought this article is a really clear explanation on the problems caused by origin of goods rules.

"It all serves to illustrate one of the great Brexit paradoxes: while the “Leave” vote was in part [ of a misplaced] strike back at Brussels bureaucracy, exit will mean a whole lot more of it. This is a theme we will return to on the Prospect website in due course.

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/economics-and-finance/rules-of-origin-the-biggest-brexit-problem-you-didnt-know-about%e2%80%a8%e2%80%a8

lonelyplanetmum · 22/04/2018 09:22

Red -Do you really think that will help people whose current immigration status is not to have a British Passport or happen to be not white, or poor or unwell in some way.

I genuinely don't know. I've always been instinctively opposed to identity cards. Some EU countries have them don't they? I don't know enough about how they work?

As I said, I think it depends on the political will behind whoever is operating the system.As we have seen with the current hostile environment and Windrush - the current home office implementing an identity card system would be terrifying.

I do think that in some way the way we have been seen to operate (or not operate) a system has enabled people like UKIP and Britain First to spread misinformation.

But I instinctively resist identity cards as it smacks of micro chipping people.

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