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Brexit

Westminstenders: Throwing Boomerangs

960 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2018 18:42

British politics and media in a nutshell.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boomerang_effect_(psychology)#Political_beliefs

No EU progress, no discussion. Just this. Keep everyone in line by bouncing boomerangs.

Disaster capitalism looms, they just have to get us to the edge of the cliff before the centre reforms. That's it.

If the legal roads to stop Brexit are closed as David Allen Green says, then how do you force the political flood gates to open, especially with both the far left and the far right using micro-aggression against the public to keep the centre ground weak?

Answers on a ballot paper on 3rd May.

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Cailleach1 · 17/04/2018 01:03

Absolutely speechless at that article, BigChoc. There was a time after the RUC changed to PSNI where there was a policy to increase representation in the police force to be more reflective of the NI population. This was ditched. Maybe it was around Owen Paterson's time So, to arrive at active discrimination of an Irish identity in NI is amazing.

Cailleach1 · 17/04/2018 01:06

Lammy was very good, I thought. Keep thinking of all the people and organisations who have obviously 'caught fleas'.

mathanxiety · 17/04/2018 06:01

Creed is one heck of a busy man, signing agreements in Saudi and China.

Is there a chance Ireland is going to run out of beef

The UK nationals only directive for the border can only signal one thing.
Are they deliberately trying to goad trigger happy Republicans so that in the aftermath of, say, a car bomb, Brussels will forget the interests of the nationalists in NI, the Irish passport holders, Ireland in general? I personally wouldn't put it past TM or the Tories (maybe some clique of ex armed services swivel eyed loons) to run a false flag operation.

HesterThrale · 17/04/2018 06:32

So... the People's Vote. I'm thinking - what is a vote if it's not a referendum? Are they deliberately not using the word 'referendum' due to connotations? Parties and politicians are saying they don't support a 2nd referendum, so what is it?

The People's Vote campaign seeks to ensure that the government's Brexit deal is put before the country in a public vote so that we can decide if a decision that will affect our lives for generations makes the country better or worse off.

www.peoples-vote.uk/about

Additionally, there is a debate scheduled for 30th April on the petition for Parliament to vote on a deal. Will this be overtaken by the demand for the people to have a say?

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/205169

Theworldisfullofgs · 17/04/2018 07:31

My dh reckons Amber Rudd is positioning herself as the human face of the Tories and therefore future leader.
I think she'll end up resigning.

If we didn't leave the EU (unlikely I know) how does the govt position itself and what it's done over the last two years?

lalalonglegs · 17/04/2018 07:35

Red and other frequent posters have been predicting this for some time: Brexit legislation caught in parliamentary logjam. The UK has simply run out of time to get the basic housekeeping done on a Brexit deal, much less sort out trade/immigration/NI etc etc.

MPs returned to parliament on Monday after the Easter recess – the 123rd day that parliament has sat since the general election – but the government is still to pass a single piece of Brexit legislation.

Parliament will only sit for another 80 days before MPs are expected to vote on the final Brexit deal struck between Theresa May and the European Union, scheduled for October.

No idea if this means a more pragmatic approach to Brexit (possibly extending A50) or whether the cliff edge is beckoning.

RedToothBrush · 17/04/2018 07:58

The EU are unlikely to extent a50. (Politically very difficult as it requires EU countries to all agree - and legally there may be problems doing this at the very last minute).

We will go on pretending there is no problem until October as thats when the EU say they need an agreement. We will miss that deadline. The Withdrawal Bill will not be the headline grabber.

The LD Lords will be going nuts by this point and Lord Adonis pretty much will have had a total melt down. My Labour Lords will have broken ranks going mad at Corbyn. Still nothing will happen. Talks will drag out until December and all hell will start to break lose. Because none of the papers really are saying much about the Withdrawal Bill and its importance (more important than an EU deal).

Without proper scrutiny the Withdrawal Bill as a piece of legislation is a disaster waiting to happen with real world unintended consequences left right and centre. That is the biggest danger, over and above EU negotiations. I think we probably will eventually end up with some kind of fudge on that score even if its only to delay the cliff edge. But the Withdrawal Bill doesn't have the same luxury. Especially if the fixed deadline is written into it (no sign of it not).

January to March will see panic start to set in. March could be a lot of very late nights for MPs and Lords. So could December for that matter. I would advise MPs to do their Christmas shopping early this year.

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RedToothBrush · 17/04/2018 08:01

Oh I forgot November. If we get that far and Trump hasn't set off a nuke or rigged the mid terms or fired Mueller events in America are highly likely to have significant political impact here.

If any of those things do happen before November (strong possibility) expect to see it all kicking off sooner.

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Mistigri · 17/04/2018 08:02

NI: Only British passport holders can apply for Brexit border force jobs in Belfast

I'm not sure that's quite right - isn't it the case that anyone born in NI is both British and Irish? The rules appear to say that you have to be a British national to apply, not that you must be a passport holder.

You can be British without holding a British passport - my son no longer has a UK passport as he doesn't need one, but he is still British. (I must admit that current events are making me wonder whether it would be prudent to renew his UK passport ...).

I agree that this sort of exclusionary wording on such a sensitive issue is wrong, of course.

Mistigri · 17/04/2018 08:05

Agree with everything that RTB says re Brexit legislation, except that I think that if give a sufficient run up A50 could be extended. I'm not holding my breath though.

Cailleach1 · 17/04/2018 08:21

The amazing thing about the GFA was people from NI could identify as Irish only, British only or both. You we not classed as British because NI is part of the UK jurisdiction. It allowed for different identities or layers if you chose.

You have the right to identify as British if from NI, but don't have it imposed on you. You have the right to be solely Irish. So, having to say you are British or British to qualify for a job in that part of the UK takes that away.

Cailleach1 · 17/04/2018 08:24

It must be people who are classed as British. Who agree they are British. It is a strange one.

RedToothBrush · 17/04/2018 08:31

Daniel Hannan @ danieljhannan
Here's an unpopular opinion on the #Windrush affair. You could say, the system worked. A newspaper unearthed a scandal (well done @ameliagentleman). Pundits & politicians unanimously decried the injustice. Ministers listened and changed policy. That's what's meant to happen, no?

David Allen Green @ davidallengreen
Here's an unpopular opinion on the #Titanic affair. You could say, the system worked. A ship on its maiden voyage hit an iceberg. Some passengers escaped on the lifeboats. Ministers learned from this, and insisted on more lifeboats in future. That's what's meant to happen, no?

Hannan's detatchment from humanity and reality from his ivory towers where it never touches him, never ceases to amaze.

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Theworldisfullofgs · 17/04/2018 08:48

If someone told me Daniel Hannan was a lizard I wouldn't be surprised.

May'be David Ike was right.

Peregrina · 17/04/2018 09:23

There shouldn't have been a scandal to unearth in the first place! Hannan is a prize idiot.

Cailleach1 · 17/04/2018 09:36

It is like McVey saying the rape clause is a double support for the claimant.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/04/2018 11:52

Misti The application pack says that "British passports must be presented at the interview"
So only those NI residents willing to get a British passport - or ale to obtain one in time for the interview - will be considered

It really is that bad

DGRossetti · 17/04/2018 12:06

It is like McVey saying the rape clause is a double support for the claimant.

Not sure how a comment like this didn't cause a riot, if not a full blown war Angry

BigChocFrenzy · 17/04/2018 12:41

Incredibly insensitive remark - takes a lot to shock me atm, but that callous attitude did

BigChocFrenzy · 17/04/2018 12:44

TROUBLE AHEAD

  • transition deal -depends on withdrawal agreement
- which depends on NI border being resolvedand there is no movement so far

Germany supports Irish insistence on Border backstop

The NI border talks, between UK lead negotiator Olly Robbins and the EU’s deputy chief negotiator, Sabine Weyand, are half-way through the allocated 6 weeks.

So there will be a formal review tomorrow of progress (that was what I was trying to remember happens on 18 April)

Coveney (RoI Foreign Minister) sounds concerned that the UK is no closer to agreeing the required text which will be part of the Withdrawal Agreement.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/germany-supports-irish-insistence-on-border-backstop-says-minister-1.3459666

Coveney:

“We have got unambiguous solidarity today from the largest country in the European Union, and that is hugely appreciated on the Irish Border issue,”

“I think the Germans do understand actually the significance of borders and barriers and the emotions that get stirred up by that type of imagery.”

“The idea that anybody could be talking about the re-emergence of physical border infrastructure on the island of Ireland is something that we simply can’t allow to go unchallenged or unchecked.”
...
he warned: “There will be no withdrawal treaty if there is not a backstop on Irish Border in that treaty.”

DGRossetti · 17/04/2018 13:20

Incredibly insensitive remark - takes a lot to shock me atm, but that callous attitude did

It remains a mystery why any woman would vote Tory. Men, I get. But women ?

lonelyplanetmum · 17/04/2018 15:07

It remains a mystery why any woman would vote Tory

Well according to the local elections boards around me the reason to vote Tory is...drum roll

" Vote Tory to keep weekly bin collections"

No words.

Figmentofmyimagination · 17/04/2018 15:47

Making the case for combined military forces, aka EU armed forces. Not such a terrifying prospect after all.

www.socialeurope.eu/why-russia-is-politically-and-militarily-strong-while-being-an-economic-dwarf

RedToothBrush · 17/04/2018 18:28

Been out today so missed the Brittany Kaiser testimony.

Carole Cadwalladr @carolecadwalla
Malta investigators: Brittany Kaiser tells MPs CA/SCL never worked there...she also says C4 claim to have 'ghosted' into countries in Central Europe unlikely..or at least she'd never heard it...also says she has "no idea" about Czech Republic
[Reference to the TrumpRussia Prague connection?]

Argentina journalists: Kaiser claims there were pitches by CA but no work ever done

Steve Bannon introduced Arron Banks to Cambridge Analytica, Brittany Kaiser tells MPs

BREAKING: Brittany Kaiser's written evidence has explosive new claims about Breitbart's relationship with Cambridge Analytica. Company had "exclusive rights to re-sell Breitbart engagement data". Steve Bannon key role in both orgs. Major new qs about Bannon & Brexit...

Ooh fascinating. Brittany Kaiser now talking about central role of Matthew Richardson, then general secretary of UKIP. And - she doesn't mention - ROBERT MERCER'S LAWYER...

Wow. This is BIG. @Arron_banks, are you listening to Brittany Kaiser give evidence? She's talking about transferring data between Eldon insurance & @LeaveEUOfficial. "He asked us to combine the data". Isn't that illegal?

This is MASSIVE. Eldon insurance data being used for political purposes. "I saw this with my own eyes," says Brittany Kaiser. This is Facebook/Cambridge Analytica levels of data abuse

Eldon customers were called by Leave.EU employees to flog Brexit...

MPs now talking about the invoice. Cambridge Analytica took possession of UKP membership data & surveys in October. In January, proposal of combining insurance & political data presented by Alexander Nix to @Arron_banks & @andywigmore. "They took my proposal and copied it".

Explosive revelations in parliament. Brittany Kaiser is accusing @arron_banks of @leaveEUofficial of illegal data combining. Illegal data exporting. Illegal use of insurance data for political purposes.

Hello @uber? Do you work with Cambridge Analytica? Brittany Kaiser says firm met with Nix & other execs. And ex-Cambridge Analytica intern Sophie Schmidt now works with Uber...

Peter Geoghegan @PeterKGeoghegan
Arron Banks ‘loaned’ £6m to Leave.EU , which has never been repaid. His declared diamond finds in Lesotho are ‘geologically impossible’. His insurance business was ‘technically insolvent’. Do we need to talk about Arron? @openDemocracy latest

David Carroll @profcarroll
Uber also mentioned here, didn’t make it into tweet. She said Uber met with #CambridgeAnalytica. Canadian hacker grabbed 57 million Uber accounts and contacted them 6 days after election for hush payment, allegedly disguised as “bug bounty.”

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RedToothBrush · 17/04/2018 18:55

Robert Peston @Peston
This Home Office justification for destroying Windrush generation arrival records contains a glaring internal contradiction - because the records were useful to the immigrants whose rights were impaired by their destruction

The Border Agency destroyed documents that prove entry because the Data Protection Act says that personal data should not be kept 'for longer than is necessary'. Yet the Home Office expects people to provide data which might be held by other government bodies as proof of their residency. Why hasn't this data been destroyed under the same rules as the Border Agency used to justify the destruction of those records? Conversely, did the Border Agency destroy important information that was still necessary and therefore the government is effectively liable for anyone who is unable to prove their entry to the UK?

Westminstenders: Throwing Boomerangs
Westminstenders: Throwing Boomerangs
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