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Brexit

Westminstenders: Throwing Boomerangs

960 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2018 18:42

British politics and media in a nutshell.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boomerang_effect_(psychology)#Political_beliefs

No EU progress, no discussion. Just this. Keep everyone in line by bouncing boomerangs.

Disaster capitalism looms, they just have to get us to the edge of the cliff before the centre reforms. That's it.

If the legal roads to stop Brexit are closed as David Allen Green says, then how do you force the political flood gates to open, especially with both the far left and the far right using micro-aggression against the public to keep the centre ground weak?

Answers on a ballot paper on 3rd May.

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SwedishEdith · 16/04/2018 18:21

Is she not trying to distance herself and paint this as TM's mess and she'll have to clean it up?

SwedishEdith · 16/04/2018 18:25

Interestingly (?), Rudd is/was in a relationship with Kwasi Kwarteng.

'Kwarteng was born in Waltham Forest in 1975 to parents who migrated to the UK from Ghana as students in the 1960s.

He has written a book, Ghosts of Empire, about the legacy of the British Empire, published by Bloomsbury in 2011'.

Hasenstein · 16/04/2018 18:31

Thanks for the proxy best wishes for DW. I'm actually amazed that she hasn't just chucked it all in and persuaded me to go back to Germany. Of course, we do consider this now and then, but it's been 40 years and we have neither friends nor family there any more. Our life, friends, and children are here.

And we're fortunate, in that we can afford the time and expense of all this. We've met many who can't. The Dutch chap I mentioned previously who was administering the English Proficiency tests hasn't taken the test yet because he's so poorly paid he can't afford it. The poor woman who was refused permission to take the Life in the UK test because of a minor and readily correctable error was distraught at having to pay again. £50 is a lot to lose when you're strapped for cash in the first place. And the piddling little error she'd made on the form shows how easy it is to reject people out of hand, rather than helping her to correct it. Whatever happened to the milk of human kindness?

At every turn, you're made to feel, not exactly unwelcome, but certainly challenged to run the gauntlet of petty obstructions, daunting forms, need to produce reams of old documentation (with no gaps), prove you haven't been out of the country for more than a certain number of days in the qualifying period (difficult without passport stamps or a truly photographic memory), constant additional costs and so on.

For the next stage of the saga, I filled out the online form (including parents' dates and placed of birth for some reason - are they really going to check the parish register in Elbing, which has probably been destroyed in the war anyway?) and contacted the Nationality Checking Service for this area (who check to ensure all the documentary evidence is there and take a certified copy of your passport, otherwise you have to send the original for however long the Home Office takes to process your application). They told me they couldn't check the accuracy of the online form (hadn't had the proper training, apparently) and would only do it if I downloaded and printed out the form and filled it in manually.

Luckily, I'd already done that late last year, so I filled in the 28-page form again. It was only by chance I found out that the form had been updated and changed in February 2018, so I had to do it again! We now have an appointment in early May (£98, please), after which the finishing line should be in sight.

I really feel for all those people involved in the Windrush fiasco. How on earth are they supposed to get their hands on old documentation from back when they were children? How long do you have to work and pay taxes and be good honest citizens before it's grudgingly accepted that you belong here? It will have cost us well north of £2000 and there are so many people who can't afford it - and why the hell should they even have to? I can only imagine the costs if you need to get an immigration lawyer involved with no prospect of legal aid.

The whole processs stinks and it's no surprise that the Home Office is going to be hiring armies of unelected bureaucrats, sorry civil servants, to process the coming avalanche of applications for "settled status", which is now being proposed instead of Permanent Residence. Goodness knows why they want to make this change - why should you have to apply for settled status if you've already got permanent residence? Kafka would be laughing himself silly.

RedToothBrush · 16/04/2018 18:43

Ian Dunt @ iandunt
Huge public opposition to govt treatment of Windrush migrants. Strongest among the over-65s, who remember when they first arrived.

Fascinating. The Daily Mail is following its readership.

Westminstenders: Throwing Boomerangs
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lonelyplanetmum · 16/04/2018 18:45

I really feel for all those people involved in the Windrush fiasco..

And Hasenstein you and DW clearly have the understanding, education and confidence etc to battle with the system.

What if you are 80+, or with limited education, lacking in confidence or perhaps with a touch of dementia. Then there'd be no hope.

prettybird · 16/04/2018 18:45

SwedishEdith - dh's opinion is that Amber Rudd is "taking one for the team": backing down and implementing a apparent U-turn - on something that they were eventually going to have to back down on anyway (and after many many wasted man-hours, not even counting the broken lives Sad) so as to deflect attention from May and the air strikes.

It managed to be the first item on the BBC News, thus relegating May and the air strikes to a lower emphasis Hmm

SwedishEdith · 16/04/2018 18:48

He could be right prettybird.

RedToothBrush · 16/04/2018 18:52

Nicole Valentinuzzi @ nicolevIFG
this is not the day for this, @GuardianJobs

The HO are looking for a new press officer!!! [Grin]

Westminstenders: Throwing Boomerangs
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Hasenstein · 16/04/2018 18:58

Lonelyplantmum

I had precisely that experience last year with two elderly German women, both widows, who'd never had to deal with bureaucracy before and, perhaps for reasons of cultural memory, were absolutely terrified about what they were facing. It's really tough for people like that. I can only shudder to think what (now) elderly people who came here from Commonwealth countries BY INVITATION in the 1950s and 60s and are now having to worry about health cover, pension and so on.

Anyway, I've blethered on enough already. There are millions in the same position as us. It's just not good enough.

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 16/04/2018 19:14

Good to hear your DW's stuff is progressing (I think at least) hasen

I can't stop facepalming long enough to say something on the HO

borntobequiet · 16/04/2018 19:34

I believe that the Windrush immigrants have been covered in GCSE History specs for many years now so it’s one aspect of post war history that many will be familiar with and feel outrage at what is happening.

Mistigri · 16/04/2018 19:38

The Daily Mail is following its readership.

I am not at all surprised at this. There do seem to have been two groups of leavers on the immigration question: the "Britain is full" gang, who are xenophobic but not outright racist, and "racist and proud of it" group. The first group is by far the largest.

LukeCagesWife · 16/04/2018 20:47

As a Windrush descendant this is close to me.

The Windrush generation bring back the colonial nostalgia in some quarters.

A relative reminded me today of when as a teenager he and his mates were chased by Non-local NF. It was a hot summers day, as they ran past the local pub that they couldn’t enter as they were black, the patrons outside stopped the fracas with shouts of ‘you cannot batter them, they are our n’. At which point the two fractions then fought over who owned the right to batter the darkies.

This was 1970s London.

Today, the message is ‘send back the xyz, but not those immigrants* because they are ours’.

*with hindsight were they immigrants seeing as they moved from one part of the empire to another as British Subjects?

RedToothBrush · 16/04/2018 20:50

Carole Cadwallardr @ carolecadwalla
^BREAKING: Cambridge Analytica's relationship with Wikileaks predates by Trump's election by 18 months, CEO of parent company claims.
(from @EmmaLBriant via @commonscms)^

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LukeCagesWife · 16/04/2018 20:53

Those relatives were born in the UK to Windrush parents, they went to school with the pub lot, and this has been playing out in SM comments:

I went to school with Jamaicans
Lived next door
Was nursed by
Worked with.

I told my husband last week there would be a backlash re Windrush based on the above.

Ironic considering the week before it was ‘if they carry a knife deport them to their grandfathers land’.

SwedishEdith · 16/04/2018 21:30

This is in the Mail. The Mail. Andy Wigmore really loves talking, doesn't he?

www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-5622291/Leave-campaign-deliberately-stoked-outrage-Brexit-campaign.html

RedToothBrush · 16/04/2018 21:32

Carole Cadwalladr @ carolecadwalla
Wow. Breakthrough moment. The @MailOnline is covering this. How the Leave campaign learned lessons from "clever" Nazis.

www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-5622291/Leave-campaign-deliberately-stoked-outrage-Brexit-campaign.html
Leave campaign `deliberately stoked outrage´ in Brexit campaign

Well yes. Stating the bleeding obvious. The Nazis did use some of the most effective propaganda ever used, and they are the most relevant to today, because they used methods and media that are still in widespread use and didn't exist much earlier.

Hearing it being said that they copied techniques isn't the revelation its made out to be. It was known and commented on at the time, because it was so brazen. All you have here is an admission that anyone who studied it should know.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.newstatesman.com/2016/06/nigel-farage-s-anti-eu-poster-depicting-migrants-resembles-nazi-propaganda%3famp
Nigel Farage’s anti-EU poster depicting migrants resembles Nazi propaganda
From 16th June 2016

Wigmore's actual quote here is:

Mr Wigmore told Dr Briant: “The propaganda machine of the Nazis, for instance – you take away all the hideous horror and that kind of stuff, it was very clever, the way they managed to do what they did.

“In its pure marketing sense, you can see the logic of what they were saying, why they were saying it, and how they presented things, and the imagery.

“And looking at that now, in hindsight, having been on the sharp end of this campaign, you think: crikey, this is not new, and it’s just … using the tools that you have at the time.”

The way this is framed, it sounds like admitting to using effective Nazi techniques is the controversial part. Wigmore is right in what he says - they were very good and very clever at what they did and demonstrated the power of the media they used and the effectiveness of those tools.

The problem is actually in their deliberate usage in modern politics in the same context and for the same reasons at the Nazis. But, as I say, we already knew that pre-referendum.

The fact the Mail is admitting it, is really significant though. That's two articles that are somewhat against the grain of the Mail and involve immigration today.

Perhaps polling is showing immigration is a problem area for the Tories ahead of the local elections....

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Cailleach1 · 16/04/2018 21:36

China is now fully open and operational for Irish beef, and the export of frozen boneless beef to the largest single food market in the world can begin.

The factories that have been fully approved, and can actively export to China from this morning, include the Larry Goodman-owned ABP plant in Clones in Co Monaghan, Slaney Meats based in Co Wexford, and Donegal Meat Processors.

All of these meat factories have succeeded in satisfying the most exacting production standards demanded by the Chinese and are the first European beef factories to gain access to the Chinese market.

Mr Creed has also said he will lead a trade mission to China next month to further build on Ireland's trade relationships and continue its dialogue with the Chinese government.

www.rte.ie/news/2018/0416/954740-beef-agriculture-china/

Think of it. Loss of UK market for Ireland can be replaced by China. Look at the locations of the plants already approved. Clones and Donegal. Catchment area of NI. If the all Ireland meat market disappears, it will be a huge opportunity lost.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/04/2018 22:02

NI: Only British passport holders can apply for Brexit border force jobs in Belfast Hmm

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2018/04/16/news/only-british-passport-holders-can-apply-for-brexit-border-force-jobs-1305050/

To work for Border Force applicants must be UK citizens and hold British passports which must be presented at interview.

The application pack for the job states that "these are reserved posts and are only open to UK nationals."

Irish passport holders living in Northern Ireland will not be able to apply for the positions.
This is "due to the sensitive nature of the work, require special allegiance to the Crown".

The SDLP's Claire Hanna, the party's Bexit spokesperson, branded it "exclusionary and chilling"
– and called for the British government to "spell out clearly what form of border they anticipate these employees to be guarding"

Border Force is the British government's law enforcement command which carries out immigration and customs checks on people and goods entering the UK.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/04/2018 22:04

Around a quarter of passports held in the north are Irish, according to the 2011 census
So we're not looking at a Border Force that will be representative of NI residents

BigChocFrenzy · 16/04/2018 22:22

Is this the return of the B Specials to NI ? Confused

Just realised how an earlier story could raise unpleasant memories in NI:

< for those too young to remember, armed special constables more like a militia
Notoriously sectarian, with UVF links, they committed many atrocities during Ireland's War of Independence and in 1970 was disbanded, much to the relief of Catholics and the anger of Loyalists >

www.civilserviceworld.com/articles/news/home-office-urged-scrap-plan-‘dads-army’-volunteer-border-force

[immigration minister Brandon Lewis]

"Border Force is considering the use of ‘special’ volunteers to supplement the work of permanently employed staff in mobile teams and at ports

“To that end Border Force is seeking to learn from various police forces’ use of special constables.”

prettybird · 16/04/2018 22:39

Interesting that you should post about Irish beef to China Cailleach1

Had lunch again with my NZ former dairy farmer friends on Friday (before they continued up the West Coast of Scotland, enjoying our lovely not Spring weather Hmm). They were talking again about how the Pacific region is now NZ's primary market. They also said that not only does NZ sell China beef and dairy products (as their diet changes to become more Western include more dairy), NZ companies now have dairy and beef farms in China. Shock

BigChocFrenzy · 16/04/2018 22:48

Chinese ambassador to EU: No UK trade talks without a Brexit deal

In his first media interview, Zhang Ming warns about ‘spillover effects’ from the Brexit process for the global economy.

https://www.politico.eu/article/chinese-ambassador-eu-zhang-ming-no-uk-trade-talks-without-a-brexit-deal/

“If there is not a Brexit deal, there won’t be things to talk about after that.

If the EU and the U.K. fail to reach agreement in the first place, the U.K.’s agreements with other parties may have to face great uncertainties.

Only with an EU-U.K. deal can the U.K. be in a better position to have more detailed discussions with other players of the international community"

BigChocFrenzy · 16/04/2018 22:53

One year from Brexit, EU’s British staffers in limbo

https://www.politico.eu/article/one-year-from-brexit-british-eu-staffers-still-left-hanging/

U.K. nationals living in EU27 countries received some clarity about their future from the deal on citizens’ rights struck last month in Brussels.

But that deal said nothing about those Brits working as policy officers, translators and clerks within the EU institutions themselves
— ironically the individuals who have the most invested in the European project.
They have no guarantees about their own professional status post Brexit.

RedToothBrush · 17/04/2018 00:42

amp.theguardian.com/law/2018/apr/17/criminal-defence-solicitors-may-be-extinct-in-five-years-says-law-society?__twitter_impression=true
Criminal defence solicitors may be extinct in five years, says Law Society
Cuts to fees mean legal system faces cliff-edge in England and Wales, profession warns

“Twenty years without any increases in fees, and a series of drastic cuts, have pushed the criminal justice system to the point where lawyers can no longer see a viable career doing this work,” Egan said. “If a suspect cannot access free advice and representation, a fair trial would be jeopardised, and cases would collapse.”

The article states how in some areas there are no practicing criminal defense solicitors under 35. This is in danger of causing the complete collapse of the criminal justice system in this country.

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