Westminstenders: Exit 2020 Vision

[RedToothBrush]

Yet it is a great mistake to suppose that the only writers who matter are those whom the educated in their saner moments can take seriously. There exists a subterranean world where pathological fantasies disguised as ideas are churned out by crooks and half-educated fanatics for the benefit of the ignorant and the superstitious. There are times when this underworld emerges from the depths and suddenly fascinates, capturers and dominates multitudes of usually sane and responsible people, who thereupon take leave of sanity and responsibility. And it occasionally happens that this underworld becomes a political power and changes the course of history.
Norm Cohn ‘Warrant for Genocide’ 1970

(As referenced by Nick Cohen).

We have a deal (or bits of a deal). Bino til Dec 2020. Then the cliff?

Still a long way to go. It sounds better than it could be. But worse than it initially seems.

Because there is such a thing as fund raising,.............

I learnt to distrust anything the BBC said then.
The pictures of good sized pro EU crowds and rally, by Arthur's Seat were beautiful prettybird but not on BBC as far as I know.
‏
@MollyMEP
Molly Scott Cato MEP Retweeted Philippe Bernard
Foreign correspondents now commentating on the blackout on reporting #StopBrexit marches today. Reported in other countries but not hereMolly Scott Cato MEP added,

@canalbernard
Sous prétexte d’information équilibrée, la BBC observe un black-out remarquable sur les manifestations pro européennes au Royaume-Uni. twitter.com/socialistdawn/status/977530902107578368 …

Two orchestras left:

1. European Union Youth Orchestra.
2. European Union Baroque Orchestra (moved to Antwerp).

It's just sad.A loss of prestige, opportunity and international presence. Outward looking and global rather than inward looking small minded isolationism.The loss of a chance to be part of peaceful co-operation in something bigger than ourselves.

Of course I am jwim but i know that opportunities will open for them elsewhere and it is sad, I never said it wasnt.

There are opportunities in this country to join a world renowned group of youth musicians. You just have to audition for them

But there will no longer be the opportunity for young British musicians to join the European Union Youth orchestra. Which means currently 15 positions lost. Which means 15 more people auditioning for the spaces in the national orchestras. It really doesn't matter how many wonderful orchestras there are in the country. The loss of one means reduced opportunity for all as competition becomes fiercer. It doesn't matter what your stance is on brexit - that is just a case of simple maths!

I am shocked that, as a musician, you are being so -heartless- cavalier about this news Sos. It is bad news. It just is. It is yet another loss - and there is no bright side. It is diminished opportunities for talented young British people - people who didn't even get a say in this clusterfuck.

Lonelyplanetmum our youth orchestras go all over the world including our national brassbands! How on earth is that isolated? For goodness sake our National youth organizations are far older than the European ones! I was touring Europe in the bloody 60s for goodness sake!

Pretzel, I am saddened but it is not the end of their musical career!

Funding for youth music has been slashed over the last 20 years by various governments. I'm baffled that anyone seems to think it's exempt from cuts. If national income falls post Brexit it's highly likely that spending on culture (including youth music) will be cut yet again.

Obviously the concept that almost all cultural groups/ sites/ exhibitions receive some form of government funding comes as a surprise to some people Irene!

But anything supported by any industry is going to be hit if that industry gets hit. Poorer people post brexit will hit the music industry in Britain, as a lack of disposable income will mean that less and less people are buying into it. Yes they will still get money from abroad, but their domestic market will be badly hit and that will affect them... and cuts will be made somewhere.

You may not have noticed this but a lot of the cultural institutions in the UK are performing less in the UK at the moment. And I'm sure that goes for our orchestras, youth orchestras included.

Why? Because the drop in the value of sterling has made putting on productions more expensive. Really. With the odd result that many are now having to tour more in order to raise funds.

So, Sos, you are probably right about the opportunity to tour still being available.

The many, many joys of Brexit.

Well unfortunately in order to get into any national music group you do have to be the best in the country ( or the best who audition) that is obvious! Not everyone will succeed sucks I know but that's life!
The 15 youngsters will have music in their veins and in a couple if years i am sure they will be very successful in their careers and I wish them the best if luck.

it is just another loss, of course it is being part of something International.

The same principles apply as hosting the EMA and the EBA ,albeit on a smaller scale. All these organisations brought prestige and income from visitors.

We also do not know how easy it will be for the national orchestras to travel in the future.

The creative industries - and music is one of them - are already suffering pre-Brexit effects. They are very, very worried about the impact of Brexit.

Bizarrely, for an industry sector that accounts for quite a significant wodge of GDP and adds to the cultural life of the UK and gives the UK a lot of prestige, they are really, really not being listened to. I think because they are still seen as 'inauthentic' (as opposed to manufacturing) and lightweight (as opposed to manufacturing or finance and services). They're not. They are a really important segment of UK industry.

An expert view..

www.abo.org.uk/media/128619/ABO-Brexit-report.pdf

National youth musicians gave ALWAYS toured that's his they became world renowned. If you want to hear your National Youth orchestras/brass band courses are held every year at easter and in autumn where open rehearsals and end if course concerts are held.... Well that us when they are not touring if course as they gave to keep their prestige up!

Bye bye British space science. We are leaving Galileo. Cos its a EU programme. What do you mean Mrs May? You don't want to leave that?

Pretzel, I am saddened but it is not the end of their musical career!

I'm sorry to be patronising, but do you understand the maths? There are now (or there will be) less places in all orchestras for British musicians because they can no longer play in the European Union one. Now those particular 15 may go out and gain a place in one of our own excellent orchestras. But they will do so by taking the place of somebody else - somebody who would have got that place, if those 15 children were still playing with the EU orchestra. The number of places available has been cut - that means that someone will lose out!
How can you not see that?
Being sad that we are losing the EU orchestra (and our places in it) isn't demeaning the calibre of our national orchestras - or claiming that those orchestras don't tour - it is accepting that there are now less places for British musicians. A successful individual may still have the same wonderful opportunities - but there will be less successful individuals than there used to be.

Cheltenham Town Hall and Pittville Pump Room
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THE NATIONAL YOUTH BRASS BAND OF GREAT BRITAIN 2018
The National Youth Brass Band of Great Britain 2018
The National Youth Brass Band of Great Britain conducted by Bramwell Tovey performs one of its Grand Finale 2018 Easter Course concerts at the fabulous Cheltenham Town Hall.

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Friday 6th April 2018 - 7:30pm

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Venue: Cheltenham Town Hall

The National Youth Brass Band of Great Britain conducted by Bramwell Tovey.

From the very good ABO report...

British orchestras perform a strong public relations role for the UK, showcasing the best of British culture and musical expertise to thousands of people across the globe. In 2016 British orchestras visited a total of 42 countries, compared with 35 countries in 2013. Europe is the most toured-to continent, with orchestras reporting 96 visits to 26 different European countries. 1

-Membership of the single market and the customs union has been hugely beneficial in enabling British orchestras to tour across Europe, which generates both revenue and secures their international reputation.

-If controls are placed on EU citizens coming to work in the UK, controls may equally be placed on UK citizens wishing to work in EU countries.

-Restrictions and costs, for example for work permits, could be imposed on ABO members, damaging the financial viability of tours.

sos There is a difference in standard between being the best in Britain or best in Germany and being the best in the EU

Just like in sport, or in science

If Brexit results in a downturn to the UK economy, this is likely to have an impact on public spending, and we are nervous that further public spending cuts may need to be made. This would mean further reductions in funding for Arts Council England, local authorities and the devolved administrations, which would inevitably be passed on to arts organisations. Having already seen substantial cuts since 2010, this would put further pressure on ABO members and increase the likelihood of them sliding into deficit.

There may also be a negative impact on individual giving, corporate sponsorship and funding from trusts & foundations. All three sources of private funding rely on a benign economy and investment growth.

The ABO believes it would be in the best interests of British orchestras, and the wider classical music industry, to retain as much as possible the benefits of access to the European single market and the customs union, to avoid additional cost and bureaucracy and to enable continued cultural exchange.

7.4 Most importantly, the very survival of some orchestras will be put into question if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit. Touring into the EEA has become intrinsic to the business model of British orchestras, and the additional costs associated with controls on borders and migration would price British orchestras out of a fragile marketplace.

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Yes, and lonelyplanetmum has flagged up the other side of the pincer movement Brexit potentially imposes.

Although a lot of companies are finding they need to tour outside the UK in order to raise money for productions (with the fall in the value of sterling impacting in a number of ways) post-Brexit, touring is going to be a nightmare of visa-acquisition + a lot of our national cultural institutions are world-class because they attract members from all over the world. After Brexit, acquiring work visas for the EU members is going to tip the balance from being a time-consuming part of the operation, into being a nightmare - one which will impact on attracting talent.

Sorry to go on about this but it annoys the hell out of me.

Oops posted before I edited sorry!

I really don't think politicians, or any of us, are in a better position to advocate what is best for UK orchestras, compared to the highly experienced body representing them.