The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

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The Brexit thread.

By Brexiters, for Brexiters.

Remainers welcome, but gobshites & goadyfuckers are encouraged to take their business elsewhere.

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Of course, the EU differs in that not only is it not formed by conquest. It is formed by member states who actively sought membership. Again a difference is that small countries get a seat at the table, same as the big countries.

Talks with the EU are now apparently frozen until the UK comes up with a viable solution for the Irish border.

Any insights from our Leaver friends as to what that might look like to preserve the integrity of the GFA and be consistent with the UK's commitment which it signed up to on December 8, 2017?

Hoping not to hear crickets and see tumbleweed emoticons.

Why are Leavers so obsessed with unfounded ideas about what ‘might have happened’ if we’d Remained, whilst at the same time being so completely blasé about what ‘will happen’ when we leave?

Tusk has said Ireland comes first; there is no technological solution to no hard border therefore the back stop is a sea border.

The DUP isn’t going to allow that so the only option is to remain in SM/CU.

Why aren’t you bothered that that is a pointless end to Brexit? Same rules, same contribution, no say.

Is it that you honestly believe there’s another solution?

If you do, what is it? And you might want to tell TM too.

@bearbehind I agree that is the only way.

But let's hear it from Faith or someone else.

Agreed mother, the DUP is just one hurdle, the break up of the UK would follow.

How so? The democratically elected leaders and ministers of the gov't's of the 28 member states set the agenda.

There's a wealth of discussion and critical analyses on this, particularly wrt the European Neighbourhood Policy & enlargement.

There's no easy one-stop-shop to link you to, I'm afraid I'll fall back to 'google it'.

Protectionism, enlargement, constructivism - subtle influence via 'soft power' rather than the in-your-face overtness of what is typically seen in post modern and/or capitalist imperialism.

Before we start putting all the blame on the DUP for this

I don't "blame" them. For better or for worse they are upholding the principles upon which they were democratically elected (see: "will of the people").

I know exactly where any blame does lie - and unusually (and unfortunately) in this case, it's actually one person.

Theresa May.

No one else had the power to call last years election and piss away a working majority which would have delivered some form of Brexit by now.

All other decisions may be viewed as collective. But the power to call an election is one persons alone.

All other decisions may be viewed as collective. But the power to call an election is one persons alone.

I seem to remember parliament voting on this, not just TM unilaterally deciding and going ahead with it.

I seem to remember parliament voting on this, not just TM unilaterally deciding and going ahead with it.

Only TM - as Prime Minister - could put that motion (unless there had been a specific vote of no confidence).

I know exactly where any blame does lie - and unusually (and unfortunately) in this case, it's actually one person.

Much as I detest May, I do not think this is right. Parliament has let the British people down very badly, notably by approving the very premature sending of the A50 letter, without any idea of what the UK would be negotiating for - an error which will be seen by historians as the moment that Brexit was doomed to failure.

an error which will be seen by historians as the moment that Brexit was doomed to failure.

I wonder, if hindsight will be so cruel as to paint it as so egregious that it could be said parliament must have known that would be what would happen.

I look forward to loads of "I remember the 2010s" programmes with a parade of MPs having to pretend they had no idea this would happen - or face being called a traitor of the people.

It's a topsy turvey world when history can view voting for A50 as being the cause of Brexits failure. If only they had voted against. If you like your history ironic, they will probably claim they voted for A50 because the Daily Mexspress told them to ....

Only TM - as Prime Minister - could put that motion (unless there had been a specific vote of no confidence).

Well, yes.

But that's as far as her power extended.

Parliament ultimate made the decision to go to the country.

faith instead of arguing that TM is not to blame, could you give your opinion on the fact says talks can’t continue until NI is resolved.

What do you think the resolution is?

But if anybody is stupid enough to think a sea border can work then they are beyond help or care not one jot about this united kingdom.

Completely agree with mother on this.

Mummmy, I'm quite disappointed :( I went to great lengths to find that article in support of your assertion.

Faith, I too have seen a lot of shit talked online and in the media.

As I've maintained since the beginning, I don't think a solution can be found unless future trade & future relationship is shaped alongside.

Prior to these issues being settled there is no way to square it other than the SM/CU solution.

This is why trade negotiations etc should have been occurring in parallel from the beginning - the EU dropped a bollock in this respect imo, in their efforts to project superiority.

Faith, I too have seen a lot of shit talked online and in the media.

This is in relation to which post of mine?

As I've maintained since the beginning, I don't think a solution can be found unless future trade & future relationship is shaped alongside.

Unfortunately, TM, DD et al didn't agree. Instead they agreed that trade and future relationship come after the NI border, divorce bill and citizens rights. None of which are settled yet.

Unfortunately the EU were unequivocal in this.

They were not prepared to even begin talks until TM et al had capitulated on that ridiculous demand.

What is ridiculous about it? They are putting the safety and rights of EU citizens before trade. Priorities.

In their hubris & petulance, the EU spectacularly failed to recognise the huge significance & difficulties inherent in Ireland & NI & the delicate & precarious nature of it.
They arrogantly tried to use it as a negotiating tactic.

Prioritising EU/UK citizens & reciprocal rights & the divorce bill - fine.

But future trade & wider relationship negotiations should have occurred in parallel, with a focus at all times on not compromising Ireland, NI & the GFA.