The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

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The Brexit thread.

By Brexiters, for Brexiters.

Remainers welcome, but gobshites & goadyfuckers are encouraged to take their business elsewhere.

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Faith

"EFTA - I'd be fine with that
EEA - wouldn't be over the moon as FoM would apply, but could live with it"

Membership of either organisation provides that decisions are taken by consensus. That doesn't appear to sit well with "taking back control".

Even EFTA requires free movement between the (admittedly small number of) members states.

EEA requires not only FOM, as you rightly say, but incorporates all relevant Internal Market legislation.

Again, this seems to go against the idea of taking back control.

www.efta.int/faq

Just to clarify an earlier point I was being pressed on - as a general principle I don’t want us to abide by eu rules going ahead - that isn’t a Brexit it is a fudge and presumably a cynical ploy so when we all change our minds readmission will be easy to achieve. After all, most of the political establishment wants to keep us in in my view.

Well I don’t want to continue to recklessly abide by eu rules if that is the purpose of abiding by eu rules going ahead. I accept some rules may be necessary but this way we get to pick and choose on our own terms what we find to be acceptable.

My view is that an honest exist is therefore a hard Brexit. Our relationship with the eu going forward can then begin from that premise. That is the honest thing to do - it speaks volumes that we won’t largely due to years of reliance on others and a low sense of national confidence.

And to those accusations of rewriting history because I feel a modest hit on the economy is worth it - everyone who voted for Brexit knew it was a gamble of one sort or another. Any break with a status quo was going to be. To suggest anything else is ridiculous - but crucially people thought the economic risk worth the political freedom.

That millions of us were willing to take such a gamble only serves to show that the eu project had overreached - we will run our affairs from here onwards and not Brussels.

hey, so given you think abiding by EU rules will be a fudge but acknowledge we won't opt for a hard Brexit, how do you see you getting anything you want?

Hey so you are also content that we will no longer access the 750+ treaties/agreements entered in to by the EU member states?
Start with a complete clean sheet on all trade/services with all countries?
But therefore content to abide by World Trade Organisation rules over which the UK has no say?

Hey

"And to those accusations of rewriting history because I feel a modest hit on the economy is worth it - everyone who voted for Brexit knew it was a gamble of one sort or another. Any break with a status quo was going to be. To suggest anything else is ridiculous - but crucially people thought the economic risk worth the political freedom."

So the NHS message on the famous bus, Boris Johnson's sunlit uplands of prosperity, Fox's easiest (trade) deal ever, will only take a day, these were all figments of our imaginations then? I really can't anyone from the Leave campaign talking about economic risk or gambles during the Referendum campaign.

How modest is "modest"? The government's own impact reports were a little more severe than that.

And I think the idea that we can "pick and choose" what we find to be acceptable has been thoroughly debunked, certainly by the EU and increasingly by the UK.

Sorry, meant to say:

I really can't recall ...

The other point the Quitlings are trying to avoid by talking about money, is that when we talk about the economy, it is about far more than "money". It's about jobs, above all else. It's also about being able to afford the NHS, Education, and all other public services.

But apparently they are quite happy for those things to take a hit! Even though just the most "modest" of hits could cripple the NHS.

You are assuming I was influenced by things like the nhs bus. I wasn’t because for me this was never about money. I suspect few others were either though that’s the line you all trot out to explain what you wrongly consider such mass stupidity. for most of us this was about where power resides and immigration (some earlier poster talked about culture and music as benefits - seriously?)

As for wto rules - yes happy with that - you are correct we have limited say like any other nation but the absolutely critical difference between the wto and the eu is that the latter has political ambitions for ever closer union. The wto doesn’t pretend to be anything other than the entity it is.

Bear behind - you say I am not getting anything I want. That isn’t true. By any measure the existing status quo is gone and not to return. Our too cosy relationship (rebates and all) is gone and that will force the uk government to decide and act. Meanwhile the eu project can now roll on without the uk obstructing it. In 10 or 20 years time selling the rejoining of an eu which has rapidly continued towards ever closer political union will be very difficult to sell to the uk public.

We have stepped off the bus and that one act is enough at this stage.

So the NHS message on the famous bus, Boris Johnson's sunlit uplands of prosperity, Fox's easiest (trade) deal ever, will only take a day, these were all figments of our imaginations then?

So the assurances that a vote to leave in itself would trigger an immediate recession, and a surge in unemployment were figments of our imagination too?

This is such a tired game....

Move on from 2016 & the Eu Ref campaign - it's boring.

I get that you Hey think that Brexit will return decision making to the UK but that is not borne out by your acknowledgement that you are not getting the hard Brexit you want. Instead 'Brexit' will result in the UK abiding by all the current EU rules/agreements/trade/services treaties including paying in but with no representation and no power to determine what those rules etc will be going forward - even though the UK will be following them going forward.
So even if the EU does 'rapidly' move towards greater political union (I disagree with your analysis on this) it will make no difference to the position the UK will be in - we will still be following the EU's rules.

Faith, brexit hasn’t even started yet. It was Tory mps who talked about immediate recession. The pound bombed anyway. The governments own assessment reports state there will be negative economic consequences. Leavers will not acknowledge this!

Faithhope - you are forgetting how it works - the remain campaign was run by virgin maidens pure and true. Birdsong preceded their merest proclamations and even driven snow hesitated in the campaigns wake.

Meanwhile the leave campaign was run by crooks and psychopaths hell bent on national sabotage/ killing puppies/ stealing sweets from children.

At least I think that’s how it goes.

Jwim - I don’t disagree - but what that means is that uk resentment of the eu can only grow from here on. Being dictated to from Brussels with no say? Who will ever want more of that again in the future? Even if we don’t hard Brexit in the short term, the house of cards will collapse eventually. The brexiteers have the initiative now as far as the long game is concerned.

Seriously? Two orchestras have left the UK because of the vote! Many of our orchestras have considerable numbers of forriners playing, making them superb. And we produce many of our own excellent players, who go on to play in orchestras around the world, but for the ones playing in EU orchestras, the lack of FoM will be a problem. Many singers in particular work all over the place and believe Brexit will seriously affect them. Orchestras from around the world doing European tours may well not bother with the hassle and expense getting extra visas just to tag the UK on the end of them.

Hey, you really are coming across as either ignorant or "I'm all right Jack". Maybe both.

Cardinalsin - go and see some of the towns where I live in Lincolnshire that are now unrecognisable due to your beloved eu project. Talk to them about orchestras and see what they say.

Prosperity (largely in London) has been built at the expense of traditional communities elsewhere in the uk.

Are you sure it’s me that’s alright jack or maybe it is you?

No Hey, that's down to the UK government not giving a toss about them. It's the EU government that has been trying to help them.

It's sheer idiocy!

Prosperity has always existed in London, par for the course with a capital city. Merseyside, particularly Liverpool has done very well out of the EU, as have other northern areas. Liverpool, despite being a solidity working class city even has orchestras! Imagine that!

Brexiteers now say it’s not about money therefore obviously happy to throw the poor under a bus. Nice.

Cardinalsin - no and thrice no - uncontrolled immigration in areas neither used to it or prepared for it is the issue. That is directly caused by the terms of our eu membership. And your right - uk governments have been complicit. That doesn’t change the fact that eu insistence on freedom of movement is the cause.

I wouldn’t expect someone who uses that old killer argument - ‘think of the orchestras!’ - to necessarily get that though.

Orchestras... I mean really? How disconnected from the masses do you have to be???

Hey

"for me this was never about money ..."

Perhaps you should read what SusanWalker says at the bottom of Page 36. Maybe this was why your comments were seen as "I'm alright Jackery".

Hey

" uncontrolled immigration in areas neither used to it or prepared for it is the issue. That is directly caused by the terms of our eu membership."

The terms of our EU membership allowed us to implement controls on immigration, but we chose not to. As many others have said at many times previously, it doesn't make sense to blame the EU for the failings of our own government.

Two orchestras have left the UK because of the vote

I’m sure the people of Wolverhampton are gutted.

Orchestras I guess are a bit too high culture for Brexit Britain. Let’s go back to putting people in stocks and throwing veg at them.

Hasenstein - just reread - this is kind of my point. W are a first world rich nation. Areas of the uk should absolutely not be dependent upon cash from a third party (the eu).

What next? Cardiff brought to you by Russia? Coventry sponsored by North Korea?

This country needs to stand on its own feet and stop taking candy from the local pusher. The eu robs us of national self reliance and purpose.

Heydugges 😂😂

Proper lol'd at your description of the campaigns - a true reflection of the remoaner recollection.