The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

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The Brexit thread.

By Brexiters, for Brexiters.

Remainers welcome, but gobshites & goadyfuckers are encouraged to take their business elsewhere.

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bear, MOST of those 15 criteria are basically BINO, aren't they? And/or cake and eat it:

• Crime and terrorism: arrangements must replicate current operational and practical cross-border cooperation
• Institutional and decision-making frameworks must be identified to ensure that the UK is able fully to participate in foreign and security cooperation with the EU
• no tariffs on trade between the UK and the EU 27
• Trade in goods must continue to be conducted with no additional border or rules of origin checks
• no additional costs to businesses that trade in goods or services
• UK providers of financial and broadcasting services must be able to continue to sell their products into EU markets as at present
• UK providers of financial and other services should be able to retain automatically, or with minimal additional administration, their rights of establishment in the EU, and vice versa, where possible on the basis of mutual recognition of regulatory standard
• There must be no impediments to the free flow of data between the UK and the EU
• Any new immigration arrangements set up between the UK and the EU must not act as an impediment to the movement of workers providing services across borders or to the recognition of their qualifications and their right to practise
• The UK must seek to maintain convergence with EU regulations in all relevant areas in order to maximise access to European markets
• The UK's continued participation in the European Medicines Agency, the European Aviation Safety Agency, and the European Chemicals Agency and in other agencies where there is a benefit to continuing co-operation

-The UK's continued participation in the Horizon 2020 programme, the Erasmus+ scheme, the Galileo project and in other space and research programmes

• The UK's continued participation in all relevant air safety agreements and the Open Skies Agreement to ensure no disruption to the existing level of direct flights
• The UK government must ensure maximum access to European markets while agreeing reciprocal access to waters and a fairer allocation of fishing opportunities for the UK fishing industry

Following

Actually, most people in Financial Services do pay full PAYE. The few that don't will be the ones hiding it offshore.

Oh, and look! We're planning to leave the EU 2 whole days before the EU closes those loopholes! Who'd a thunk it...

"Do you really think Trump will be president in 5 years time?
I’ll be shocked beyond belief if he gets re-elected."

That would be the pro-Brexit Trump, who was going to be our saviour?

Even Obama would have got a trade deal that would have favoured the US, but Trump will have us bending over and saying "more please" (more chlorinated chicken, less NHS). Particularly if muppets like DD and Fox are our best negotiators...

This thread proves one thing at least - middle class remainders are largely obsessed with money.

What about hard working families in minimum wage jobs who have seen their communities changed beyond recognition by uneven and unchecked immigration? It’s ok for the likes of Londonmum8 to witter on about their ‘options’ but what options have you given the likes of those who live in towns around the uk that have changed beyond recognition?

None is the answer. Your London centric views are simply not held in the rest of the country. The choice to leave the eu was a political choice not an economic one - that is what remainers on this thread simply don’t get. If the economy takes a modest hit that is a price worth paying but we will not be held hostage to the eu.

As to the poster who argued uncertainty over where her children (presumably born outside the uk) will live post Brexit. You have my sympathy but if you do not understand why immigration is an issue and a central aspect of why we are leaving then you have missed the point.

hey those towns you talk about aren't going to get the help the need- what makes you think they are?

The situations they face are due to decisions which our governments have made. It just suits them to blame the EU.

tom yes that list is BINO and /or cake and eat it.

That is the problem.

We don't actually seem to be doing anything serious about actually leaving, other than saying that's what's happening.

If the economy takes a modest hit that is a price worth paying

It's funny, isn't it, that this rhetoric has shifted so much from when the economy was going to be uphill all the way, to new and unimagined realms of prosperity with all our new trading partners and without having to shell out our (tiny) EU payments.

On immigration, all reliable evidence suggests strongly that it is not an issue. Or, in small pockets where it is (like Lincolnshire), the problems could have been handled by the UK government – not the EU – using the rules it is allowed to use but has never chosen to regarding controlling immigration, and by that same government putting proper money and resources into local infrastructure and improving education/employment opportunities.

If the economy takes a modest hit that is a price worth paying but we will not be held hostage to the eu.

Which takes us back to the question I've asked you earlier; the outlook is very much that we we still have to abide by EU rules.

So how does the economy paying a price coupled with still being required to adhere to rules we no longer have a say in, put us in a better position than we have now?

Yep.
It’s all ‘trade deals’ & money with this lot.
Money is their god.
All they talk about is the SM & CU. Nothing else gets through to them.

Heyduggeesflipflop is spot on as usual.

All they talk about is the SM & CU. Nothing else gets through to them.

That's more than a little ironic given its simply impossible to get it through to Leavers that, unless they come up with a credible alternative, SM/CU is the only option.

@Heyduggeesflipflop

What about hard working families in minimum wage jobs who have seen their communities changed beyond recognition by uneven and unchecked immigration?

How would you explain that actual levels of immigration into an area were not a predictor of a Leave/Remain vote? In that areas with the highest levels of immigration didn't vote Leave and areas of lowest immigration did? My mum lives in an area that has had very low immigration compared to the rest of the country, she insisted her area is mostly Polish now and Muslim now. A new Aldi opened near her, word went round that they were only hiring Polish people so not to bother applying. I'm been there several times now and have yet to meet anybody, either working or shopping, who was not white British.

I actually do have some sympathy for you point. It must be difficult if you have lived in the same neighbourhood for 60 years and all the shops you used to shop at have closed and have been replaced by shops selling products you don't recognise and filled with people speaking a language you don't understand. For most people ranting about immigrants, that not how their life is, certainly it's not in my mum's community, it's overwhelming white British, voting Leave because of immigration. I don't know of any areas in the UK where whole neighbourhoods including all the shops and services have become Eastern European, are there any? I do know some small pockets of almost exclusively Asian or African and don't understand how voting Leave is going to change that.

No, it's not all about money, however I'd rather keep freedom of movement, with all the opportunities that brings, particularly cultural and musical, along with remaining a prosperous country.

Your alternative seems to be a country which affords fewer opportunities, stifles culture, and yet is also poorer.

Doesn't seem like there's much to cheer about...

I posted earlier saying the economy was way down my list, peace in NI was at the top.

I also want a country that stands up for it's people in Northern Ireland and Gibraltar, and doesn't abandon it's International Treaties and makes itself a pariah state (not to mention a laughing stock)...

in the areas with the highest levels of immigration didn't vote Leave and areas of lowest immigration did?

Well, that’s easy to explain.
Immigrants are more likely to vote remain to keep FOM.
Communities with relatively low levels of immigration will look at the communities with high levels & think ‘we don’t want that here’.

Hey Faith don't knock the Havisham effect , I have styled my house a la Havisham, less shabby chic , more shabby shit, with cobwebs

To be fair frumpety, I am often inclined to embrace a touch of the Havisham every now & then.

Not my house ('tis totes immaculate ), but I often find myself wandering about in my old wedding dress, pining for 1999... 😂😂

Immigrants are more likely to vote remain to keep FOM.

EU immigrants didn't have the right to vote. Which immigrants were you talking about?

Its true, leave voters are thick! lol! 17m is NOT a marjortiy of 46 million voters, let alone 66m population.....

😂😂😂😂😂

Obvs!

Because everyone knows that 16.1 million is a bigger number than 17.4, and therefore clearly a majority of 46 million, let alone 66 million...

Money wasn’t an issue to leavers? How do you explain the bus with 350 million splashed on? The rewriting of history has begun.

EU immigrants didn't have the right to vote. Which immigrants were you talking about?

Immigrants with family in Europe.
Why do you think the areas with high levels of immigration ( like London ) voted remain?

EU immigrants didn't have the right to vote. Which immigrants were you talking about?

Immigrants with family in Europe.
Why do you think the areas with high levels of immigration ( like London ) voted remain?

Nope, immigrants weren't alllowed to vote, no matter where they have relatives. I know this from personal experience, being married to one.

Immigrants with family in Europe. Eh? You've lost me.

I get so angry at the assumption that middle class Londoners are money grabbing obsessives for not wanting to be poorer post Brexit.

I am a remainer. I live solely on benefits. I am a single parent and carer for my disabled son. I live in Cornwall, and one of the most deprived areas. We have EU immigration, mostly to work in agriculture.

I am mostly concerned about the economic impact of Brexit. I cannot afford to be any poorer than I already am. My area cannot afford to lose it's regional development funding.

A reduced tax take will further hit funding for the NHS, education and other services. My son has already had help for his condition and his education affected by cuts. If there is more austerity his life chances will be further reduced.

Ditto my daughter, who through no fault of her own, is living with the disadvantages of having a sibling with a disability and the reduction in household income because of that.

So I will make no apologies for worrying about the impact of Brexit. For all the leavers saying it won't matter if we are poorer for a while, it might not to you, but it will to me.

The rewriting of history has begun.
It began in June 2016, when the 'left behind' rhetoric started and the 'win' was framed as a victory against the elite. It obviously suits leavers to depict remainers as a privileged wealthy subset, while painting themselves as some kind of heroic working class revolutionaries. It's almost as if JRM, BoJo, Farage etc are figments of remainers' imaginations. You really couldn't make it up, even though logic would tell you that almost half a country's voting population couldn't possibly be 'elite' . I find it fascinating how self-deceiving a lot of leavers are. As has already been pointed out, they've already deceived themselves into believing 'it was always going to be tough', when they were shouting about sunlit uplands and a glorious future a year or two ago.