Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: One for the Women

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 08/03/2018 10:23

Just remember that women are more likely to be worried about Brexit.

Their women's and workers rights are more at risk from departure from the EU, the ECJ and potentially the EHCR.
They are more likely to be worried as EU citizens in the UK due to taking time to have and raise families.
They are more likely to have been badly affected by austerity and an economic downturn will hit them first.
If they are leavers they are more likely to have changed their minds.
They are less likely to be MPs so have less representation.
They are more likely to be feeling politically unrepresented by any party and unsure of who they will vote for at the next election.
They are more likely to get abuse for expressing a political opinion. Many report having been subjected to sexual harassment from political colleagues.
They are more likely to be the target of abuse on social media.
They are earn less than their political colleagues, they earn less than their media colleagues, they earn less than their business colleagues. They are less likely to be in powerful lobby groups.

Then there's #metoo

And to cap it off women's groups are finding it hard to get their voice heard, and are frequently being labelled as hysterical or bigoted for merely wanting to discuss things and be reassured that their fears are acknowledged. They are frequently dismissed as liars or over sensitive.

This is 2018.

It doesn't feel progressive. It doesn't look equal.

Brexit has more of an impact on women.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
Dobby1sAFreeElf · 11/03/2018 22:06

Olivia there were kids out there tonight. Young kids. I was heartbroken. Thankfully a charity was convincing the parent to go to a shelter. Still left so many people that they couldn't help. It's horrendous.

Hasenstein · 11/03/2018 22:07

"You cannot blame the people because unless something directly affects you the majority of people carry on with their lives completely unaware of what's around them. Have you all counted how many homeless people you passed by today? Did you notice them,? Did you notice the empty shelves after the snow? Did you know about the old lady down the road to you that had laid dead for several days? No you didn't, because unless it directly affects you you don't think about it."

But that's just wilfully ignoring the consequences of your actions, in this case voting for Brexit. How can anyone excuse themselves by claiming they are "completely unaware of what's around them"? Ignorance is no defence against any harm you may cause by your actions.

Of course I see (increasing numbers of) homeless people, but no-one can claim to be "unaware" of the issue, even without happening to have seen a homeless person today. I have become a trustee of our local foodbank, not because I see starving people every day, but because I've made the effort to become aware of the problem. I'm not short of food myself, but I know there are lots of people who are, so I do "think about it".

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 22:07

I'm saying that most people are so busy leading their lives that unless things like what Olivia mentioned actually happen they wouldn't give it a thought!

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 22:09

I'm not one of those people as I'm sure you all aren't either but not everyone us like us. You all know this to be true.

thecatfromjapan · 11/03/2018 22:11

Well, Sostenueto, I'm a primary school teacher and I'm never, ever going to agree that adults (and children, actually,) aren't capable of understanding things other than those they have direct, personal experience of. Smile

By the way, homelessness is serious in London. I was actually a bit shocked by your use of that as an example. That's maybe just an aside. I'm finding it quite strange because it just jars so much with my own experience.

And, going a bit further - I do know quite a bit about homelessness that lies outside my direct experience. I know that, for women, homelessness is hidden (fewer women who are homeless are 'street' homeless), so what you see is hidden and gendered. I know all sorts of other things, too.

I know these things because I'm interested in many things beyond my direct experience. I suspect I also feel I have a duty to be informed. I'm an adult - what sort of government do I want, with what sort of policies, and what can I do at an individual level?

I don't think I should be asked to feel ashamed about that urge to be informed.

I don;t think I'm anywhere near thinking that people who don't inform themselves are saintly, innocent figures.

I don't think of them as a kind of noble savage, living close to the earth, deeply in tune with the rhythms of nature and unable to read.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2018 22:11

sos The time for thinking about Open Skies is not when you book your holiday, but when you vote on something that will end the UK's participation in it.

Of course the EU wants British tourists and British trade, but they cannot go against international law wrt treaties
The UK automatically falls out of Open Skies, umpteen important agencies and also frictionless trade borders if it chooses to leave both the EU and the Single Market.

These are not punishments by the EU, just natural consequences of UK decisions and how international law then polies.

Hasenstein · 11/03/2018 22:12

"I'm saying that most people are so busy leading their lives that unless things like what Olivia mentioned actually happen they wouldn't give it a thought!"

So you're saying that most people don't give a toss unless it affects them directly. Then if they're so disgustingly and wilfully callous they deserve every pain that Brexit will bring them. What ever happened to society and the duty to care for "your fellow (wo)man"?

TheElementsSong · 11/03/2018 22:14

There's ignorance, and then there's deliberately posting on a thread full of discussion about travel, and still getting it completely wrong - that is wilful ignorance.

Unless we're thinking those posters just accidentally mashed the keyboard with their elbows whilst painting their nails or summat, and coincidentally hit the Post button when reaching for the nail file?

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2018 22:15

Also best if people on the travel thread researched Open Skies before posting a load of bollocks about UK flights and hat happened in the 1960s.

The world has vastly changed in the 45 years since Britain joined the EU
What worked then often does not work now

It's like wanting to go back to using an old VCR (Video cassette recorder) to watch the latest movies - just because you could decades ago
Now
a) Shops don't sell VCRs any more
b) Even if you find an old one in your mum's attic that still works, you won't be able to buy the latest movies on video cassettes

thecatfromjapan · 11/03/2018 22:22

Anyway, talking about things we still can't say - the dead hand of the zombie Referendum discourse - it seems we still can't say there was a strong element of racism in the Referendum result.

BBC has just covered Vince Cable's speech, where he suggested the Leave vote might have had a touch of 'nostalgia' for a country where most faces were white. People appear to piling up to tell him he was wrong and insulting.

It's the big elephant, isn't it? Propelled, i guess, by a persistent desire to chase and appease the racist vote. It won't work. It just emboldens racism.

All this in a country where an MP was killed by a Far Right sympathiser during the bloody Referendum campaign.

What a huge elephant.

OliviaD68 · 11/03/2018 22:24

@Sostenueto

Not doing the work is a complete cop out. We live in a democracy which necessitates that we know stuff to keep our appointed knuckleheads in check.

Yes it's more complicated than 45 years ago. So what?

If Brexshit still goes through, we will have deserved it then.

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 22:26

Breaking news on radio 4 ......May to announce the Russians were responsible for poisoning of Sergal.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2018 22:27

Anyone based in Italy ? 

In the Italian elections, 5 Star promised a basic income for the poorest people.
On another forum, someone from Italy posted that
mow 5 Star have been elected, they said they got their sums wrong and no basic income will be possible.

If true, that's an outrageous lie and a fraud on the voters
Politicians promising money to get elected and then afterwards saying that's not possible, or they were just kidding

Reminds me of that £350 million per week for the NHS,
(which MN Leavers keep claiming no voters believed, but which Boris keeps repeating)

IrenetheQuaint · 11/03/2018 22:27

I can just about tolerate posters saying "Yes I know we will have to renegotiate some agreements to allow flights to the EU to continue, but this is surely a priority for all the countries concerned so I'm not worried about it not being done in time."

But "I went on holiday to France in 1973 and it was really easy so I can't see why there would be a problem" is just TERRIFYING.

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 22:28

Skripal sorry for typo.
Some saying May was forced into decision to blsmd Russia.

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 22:28

Blame

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 22:33

How many of our elected Priministers in the last 30+ years told us the truth, and nothing but the truth when they were campaigning? 0. How many politicians in this country promise they will do this, that and the other and don't? I leave you to put the figure in. Seems to be a common thing if you are a politician.....wonder if they take special courses on how to lie to the electorate?

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 11/03/2018 22:39

bigchoc did a spokesperson for 5* say it was just a promise that was a possibility? Wink

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 22:39

Your right there bigchocfrenzy this thread in general not like that.

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 22:40

Any offers on what us going to be in the Chancellors spring speech then?

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 22:41

Will there be any cash?

Icantreachthepretzels · 11/03/2018 22:42

You cannot blame the people because unless something directly affects you the majority of people carry on with their lives completely unaware of what's around them

And up until the Eu referendum, when we weren't personally responsible for making the decisions on the running of this country and our relationship with our closest neighbours, we were all fine living our lives that way. But once the referendum was announced it was our job to get educated before making such an important decision. If you didn't bother to or genuinely couldn't Hmm get educated before the ref and still voted leave then you are culpable for every little thing that is happening. No one had any business voting for such a seismic shift if they did not have a full handle on the facts.

If you didn't bother to/ couldn't get educated then the responsible answer was to vote remain. Change can always be made at a later date. There could always be another referendum if it still continued to gain traction or people found the EU was headed somewhere they didn't like. They could then take the time to get educated and ask for another go.

Voting leave because ordinary people don't know the facts is not a defence. They are culpable for their actions regardless of why they did it.

Those who didn't bother to vote cannot be absolved of blame either.

I'm sorry you don't want to hear that - but it is true. If the answer was 'I'm not qualified to make this decision' (which - spoiler - was all of us) then the only responsible thing to do was to force the govt to make the decision for us - and vote remain and make them negotiate reforms.

I'm also finding it hilarious that apparently the EU will sort free skies out for us because they won't want to lose the tourism. There's a whole fucking world out there! There's 27 just of them... they're really really really not gonna miss us. But how will the Britsih tourist industry fare when there aren't any planes coming here?

Icantreachthepretzels · 11/03/2018 22:44

Also Shock that anyone would think ordinary people, decent people - don't notice the homeless and feel for them even when they're getting on with their everyday lives.

But then empathy is in short supply in Brexit Britain. We're just not that sort of country any more.

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 11/03/2018 22:44

cat just saw a bit of furure re Cable on twitter. Thing is, he's right to an extent. Most of us will know a leave voter who really wanted rid of browner faces.

KennDodd · 11/03/2018 22:45

May can't afford to piss Putin off because we don't want to fuck up the fantastic free trade deal we'll be doing with Russia once free of the EU.