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Brexit

Westministenders: One for the Women

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 08/03/2018 10:23

Just remember that women are more likely to be worried about Brexit.

Their women's and workers rights are more at risk from departure from the EU, the ECJ and potentially the EHCR.
They are more likely to be worried as EU citizens in the UK due to taking time to have and raise families.
They are more likely to have been badly affected by austerity and an economic downturn will hit them first.
If they are leavers they are more likely to have changed their minds.
They are less likely to be MPs so have less representation.
They are more likely to be feeling politically unrepresented by any party and unsure of who they will vote for at the next election.
They are more likely to get abuse for expressing a political opinion. Many report having been subjected to sexual harassment from political colleagues.
They are more likely to be the target of abuse on social media.
They are earn less than their political colleagues, they earn less than their media colleagues, they earn less than their business colleagues. They are less likely to be in powerful lobby groups.

Then there's #metoo

And to cap it off women's groups are finding it hard to get their voice heard, and are frequently being labelled as hysterical or bigoted for merely wanting to discuss things and be reassured that their fears are acknowledged. They are frequently dismissed as liars or over sensitive.

This is 2018.

It doesn't feel progressive. It doesn't look equal.

Brexit has more of an impact on women.

OP posts:
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OliviaD68 · 11/03/2018 21:23

@Sostenueto

We don't all know about Open Skies yet? Seriously??

It's one of close to two dozen aviation treaties we need to fly planes in and out of the UK.

For Brexiters this may be too much. Pilots fly planes. Some fuel and maintenance. Simples. Treaties not needed.

TheElementsSong · 11/03/2018 21:23

Sos Confused I was talking about the posters on the travel thread, as per JWIM's question.

Somerville · 11/03/2018 21:23

Olivia

Might that return? (Mainland bombing campaign)
There will be a large scale peaceful civil disobedience campaign to start with, aimed at the border infrastructure. But extremists will use that time to quietly rearm and recruit, and the thing the IRA learned last time is that what finally worked was taking the fight to Britain. A disproportionate response to the civil disobedience will trigger it.

The mainland attacks were what got governments negotiating in good faith, and what what will happen again if this madness doesn't stop. And stop soon - plans are already forming, and these things can start to take on their own momentum.

Leavers don't seem to care.
I'm finding this utterly staggering; they're parroting the same lines in it all as the fucking DUP. It's terrifying that they all care more about achieving Brexit than the damage they cause to do so.
I lay awake sometimes imagining what the history books of next century will say about this sorry bunch of politicians.

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 21:24

Oh apologies elements bit confusing thereSmile

OliviaD68 · 11/03/2018 21:25

Sorry three dozen According to the FT ...

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 21:29

Olivia how would an ordinary holidaymaker know all about that unless they wanted to research it? Ordinary people may not think about all that when all they want to do is go on holiday. It is only now that they begin to know these things.

Somerville · 11/03/2018 21:43

mrsreynold
Boris got a second class degree, too. (There is a theme with this government.) I remember a few years ago when he laughed at Cameron for being such a girly swot and working hard enough for a first. Hmm

I was once at a dinner with a Cambridge Classicist who had just come from watching an old student of his in a blockbuster movie. I knew the actor had achieved a double first bit of a fan so was tickled pink when his old tutor described him as having "a half decent brain". So, yeah, we might do better with Tom Hiddleston as defence secretary.

I'm not trying to say that academic prowess is the most important factor in anything. I really don't believe that. By I do believe in playing the hands we're given to the best of our ability, and in this government I see a lot of individuals who were dealt winning hands, and managed to limp in in second place in a lot of different ways (not just academically) yet act quite the opposite.
Charlatans and losers, that's what they are.

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 21:44

Listening to radio 4 where they are saying university towns voted to stay in the EU and all others voted to leave. Also that remainers feel they are virtuous because they think they are better educated. Also they just played the Gordon Brown gaff when he spoke to Mrs Duffy. ( mike still on in car and he called her a bigot).

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 11/03/2018 21:44

I'm largely sure it's unfair to lump ordinary holidays makers in with people who may have no will to check stuff out regarding their holidays at all.

Somerville · 11/03/2018 21:45

Sorry, Boris is foreign secretary, not defence. I did know that. Hmm

Mistigri · 11/03/2018 21:46

Tbh unless you are a politician or interested in politics a lot of things just are not common knowledge. I don't research things I'm not interested in and I expect others dont either. Some people don't have the skills to research things properly either. Not everyone is the same.

The problem is that a lot of people who are too stupid or lazy to do the research still think other people should take their "opinions" (aka uninformed drivel) seriously.

OliviaD68 · 11/03/2018 21:46

It's been two years ...

It's also been in the press. There has been discussion of some 750 agreements the UK is a party to and which we need to replace.

It's all available on the internet.

True our dotard politicians have said nothing.

It shows how broad our EU relationship is and how much they've done for us. With our help and work of course. We've built it.

Westministenders: One for the Women
thecatfromjapan · 11/03/2018 21:48

Sostenueto I think you've put your finger on something, as has Element.

That thread contains actual, real information.

What is frustrating is seeing people ignoring that information and even ridiculing and minimising it.

Now, some of the people doing that have an agenda. They ridicule, confuse, minimise in order to drown out the information. It's frustrating - and we saw it in practice a lot during the Referendum.

Sadly, some of the people on the thread are really up for allowing themselves to be confused, join in the ridicule and minimising. It's a different kind of frustration.

It's all a bit depressing. The thing is, if you're going to make a decision that is going to impact so greatly on you and other people, you really can't behave so foolishly. At some level, agency and culpability have to be ascribed.

But, yes, that thread is a small indication as to how information fails to get through.Sad

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 21:50

For goodness sake how many people whoever they are when booking a holiday would look into that?
Travel agent: "what can I do for you today?"
Customer " well I want to book a holiday, but before I do I need to know this countries and the EUs policy oh and the rest of the worlds policy on flying treaties?"

Hasenstein · 11/03/2018 21:50

Sostenueto

"Ordinary people may not think about all that when all they want to do is go on holiday. It is only now that they begin to know these things."

So do you think as more people are directly and personally affected by Brexit and "begin to know these things" that they will revise their choice?

We already have higher inflation and lower pound, so presumably they'll have noticed those consequences, too. How many more of these Damascene revelations will they need? I am sure there are plenty more in the pipeline.Reignition of the Irish border situation? Maybe if they need cancer treatment with no longer available isotopes? And a lack of medical staff to administer it? Their employer moves the company to the EU and they lose their job?

I'm sure if their impending holiday problem comes as a huge surprise, they'll probably also be shocked when "all they want to do" is to buy a new car -and their aspirational BMW suddenly gets a whole lot more expensive-.

As more evidence of the fuck-up they've caused emerges, one would hope they would reconsider, but will it be in time to stop the harm they've already set in train? Will we have to consider food rationing before it finally hits home?

Tick, tick ...

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 21:51

That last post to dobby

thecatfromjapan · 11/03/2018 21:52

I'm beyond being shamed by the fact I took the time to get informed about the most important decision the UK has taken in my generation.

I'm beyond being shamed for not joining in with a corrupt elite encouraging a mob to mock and ridicule experts, delivering disinterested information.

I'm beyond being shamed for being appalled at many in the UK deciding to abandon their adult responsibilities and decide to throw in their lot with a group of venal asset-strippers who intend to squeeze the workers of this country until the pips squeak.

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 11/03/2018 21:55

Someone who isn't lazy or ignorant will usually do some basic research before booking a holiday. Even a quick Google on will brexit affect holidays brings up a number of articles mentioning potential flight grounding. It's not uncommon knowledge.

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 21:56

You cannot blame the people because unless something directly affects you the majority of people carry on with their lives completely unaware of what's around them. Have you all counted how many homeless people you passed by today? Did you notice them,? Did you notice the empty shelves after the snow? Did you know about the old lady down the road to you that had laid dead for several days? No you didn't, because unless it directly affects you you don't think about it.

SwedishEdith · 11/03/2018 21:56

"We already have higher inflation and lower pound, so presumably they'll have noticed those consequences, too."

But that's just companies ripping us off. There's no connection whatsoever with the increased cost of importing raw materials. According to the blank faces I get if I point that out, at least.

Sostenueto · 11/03/2018 21:58

I must ask the travel agent next time I can ever afford a holiday how many people asked them about ' open skies' that day pffft!

OliviaD68 · 11/03/2018 21:59

@Sostenueto

Uh - One would think that if planes stop flying - irrespective of whether one goes on holiday with a plane or not - that this would be a big deal.

Or that we run out of nuclear fuel for our power stations - 26% of UK electricity production.

Or that we run out of nuclear isotopes to treat cancer patients.

That we run out of food because of border checks. 40% of that stuff is imported.

Dunno. I would have thought these things are important to pick up on and get your head around, no?

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 11/03/2018 22:00

Actually I did notice the number of homeless people I saw today. Because it was fuck loads. The worst I've seen since the 80s. And empty shelves. Mainly because I'm not completely devoid of humanity. But that sort of accusation says more about you and your thinking.

OliviaD68 · 11/03/2018 22:01

@Sostenueto

All this stuff is going to directly affect us all..

Are you saying most people are like the proverbial frog in the boiling water ? Don't know they're boiled until too late?

Well, then the UK deserves Brexshit.

OliviaD68 · 11/03/2018 22:02

@Dobby1sAFreeElf

I notice the homeless too. I get a sharp pain in my stomach when I see them. It could be any of us.