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Brexit

Westministenders: One for the Women

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 08/03/2018 10:23

Just remember that women are more likely to be worried about Brexit.

Their women's and workers rights are more at risk from departure from the EU, the ECJ and potentially the EHCR.
They are more likely to be worried as EU citizens in the UK due to taking time to have and raise families.
They are more likely to have been badly affected by austerity and an economic downturn will hit them first.
If they are leavers they are more likely to have changed their minds.
They are less likely to be MPs so have less representation.
They are more likely to be feeling politically unrepresented by any party and unsure of who they will vote for at the next election.
They are more likely to get abuse for expressing a political opinion. Many report having been subjected to sexual harassment from political colleagues.
They are more likely to be the target of abuse on social media.
They are earn less than their political colleagues, they earn less than their media colleagues, they earn less than their business colleagues. They are less likely to be in powerful lobby groups.

Then there's #metoo

And to cap it off women's groups are finding it hard to get their voice heard, and are frequently being labelled as hysterical or bigoted for merely wanting to discuss things and be reassured that their fears are acknowledged. They are frequently dismissed as liars or over sensitive.

This is 2018.

It doesn't feel progressive. It doesn't look equal.

Brexit has more of an impact on women.

OP posts:
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BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2018 14:28

Olivia Parliament don't have to agree to a no-deal Brexit:
no-deal became the default as soon as May invoked A50
i.e. it is what happens if talks get nowhere, or the UK govt just walks out of talks and they don't restart in time.

Parliament only get to vote (too late) on a deal that has been negotiated

If there is no deal, all they can do is call for a vote of No Confidence and confirm it 14 days later
Then the Queen would invite the leader of the Opposition to form a govt, if he can.
If not, then a GE

Would enough Tory MPs really vote with Labour to bring down a Tory govt and install Corbyn as PM ?

Country before party ?
.... but probably most Tories would consider JC as PM to be a worse fate for the UK than any Brexit

btw, I always hated that Fixed Term Parliament Act, because it makes it far more difficult to get rid of a govt - 2 votes if the govt is determined to cling to power.
An example of how rigging the rules for one particular situation (the LibDems wanted to ensure they had a full term in govt with the Tories) can be a very bad idea later

OliviaD68 · 11/03/2018 14:33

@BigChocFrenzy

An accident where we crash out is possible. We all know by now the disaster it would be. Planes etc.

I suppose I am relying on democracy working and stopping an economic catastrophe from happening. It's a belief I hold. I hope it's not naive.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2018 14:35

The European Council is likely in their March meeting to refuse permission for trade talks to begin until there is a signed legally-binding text about Phase 1, including the NI border.

The UK has threatened to walk out of all talks, unless trade talks start by end of March

  • that's unofficial warnings to the EU, rather than a public statement, but the ERG and other Brexiters are pushing for this.

Who will blink ?
Or another fudge, in the hope (UK) some magic solution will turn up or (EU) a UK govt will finally get real if given more time.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2018 14:38

Olivia The problem is that if MPs do nothing - their favourite thing - then it is automatically a crash out.

To stop this, Tories would have to be very proactive:
abandon their PM and a good chunk of their party
and vote to bring the govt down

Bringing in the bogeyman JC as PM
Total end to any future career as a Tory MP, likely deselection and unemployment

It's a HUGE ask

OliviaD68 · 11/03/2018 14:39

@BigChocFrenzy

Blink?

How do you mean?

Talks have stopped until the UK has a border solution. It's non negotiable. The integrity of the SM is sacrosanct. The EU will not budge.

If the UK walks away this leads to a political crisis. No confidence vote? New GE? Second referendum? Dunno.

frankiestein401 · 11/03/2018 14:54

Normandy advert to seduce post-Brexit UK firms banned

www.theguardian.com/media/2018/mar/11/normandy-advert-to-seduce-post-brexit-uk-firms-banned

kind of cheeky admirable enterprise?

EmilyAlice · 11/03/2018 14:59

Il faut profiter de la sagesse normande (we must all learn from Norman Wisdom).
I have never heard of the Normandy Government and I live here. 🤔

Hasenstein · 11/03/2018 15:15

Il faut profiter de la sagesse normande (we must all learn from Norman Wisdom)

The Albanians were obviously ahead of their time; they've been promoting him for years.Grin

Hasenstein · 11/03/2018 15:36

If only politicians could be as honest about the upsides of immigration as this article by the Deputy Director of the Science Policy Research Unit (I'm looking at you, Mr. Corbyn).

twitter.com/Nightingale_P/status/972393822733860869

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2018 16:01

While the politicians indulge in fantasy …

vigilance after 'Punish a Muslim Day' letters

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/11/uk-charity-urges-vigilance-after-punish-a-muslim-day-letters

People in Bradford, London and Sheffield report receiving notes advocating violence

The letters say 3 April will be “Punish a Muslim Day” and points will be awarded for certain acts of violence
– from 25 points for removing a woman’s headscarf to 500 points for murdering a Muslim.

mrsreynolds · 11/03/2018 16:13

A thread about travel after next march...

Some of the responses are 😮😮😮

MimpiDreams · 11/03/2018 16:54

I saw the travel thread. What's going on? Do people really think that if nothing is sorted then it'll just pootle on the same and everything will be ok?

OliviaD68 · 11/03/2018 16:56

@MimpiDreams

Pretty much. Who needs treaties to fly planes right? Pilots fly planes. Bit of fuel and some maintenance is all you need.

EmilyAlice · 11/03/2018 17:10

That thread is terrifying. Talk about willful ignorance. 😨

KennDodd · 11/03/2018 17:12

Just putting a few things out there.

There are also marches around the country on Saturday 24th March, please attend if you are not happy with the way things are going. The general view is that if the polls move towards 60% Remain 40% Leave the Gov will no longer be able to ignore this.

scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/24130452_1760503090648422_1344882724635497447_o.jpg?oh=46c500dc0f9b767a229b917c3cb1a831&oe=5B48E2B8

thecatfromjapan · 11/03/2018 17:15

The travel thread is fascinating. In a way, I'm kind of glad it's there because you get a bit of a raw insight into people's thought processes at the moment. I'm sure some of the posters on there are 'our newer friends' but at the same time, they'll be pushing a line that is being pushed in the bits of social media I never go to. And amongst people I don't meet (living, as I seem to do, in a Remain, liberal, metropolitan bubble).

The thing I immediately noticed was that there is less of the whole 'we could all do with going on fewer holidays' and 'holidays are only for rich people anyway' cries than there used to be.

Strikes me that that is because things really are beginning to pinch for people and, as it becomes more real, that no longer works because it's not so abstract. Just a thought.

Weirdly, I think the whole 'Holidays/Food is just for rich people' worked a lot better when (most) people were actually still able to buy a full weekly shop comfortably. They could feel comfortable about their mad decision and tell themselves they'd given 'the rich' a hit, and had delivered a blow for 'the poor' ^only while they weren't actually feeling financially vulnerable themselves-- . I think it's turning into a different story now.

The tone of that thread is a bit different now. It's more: "You're hysterical. Won't happen." Which is appealing to people's desire to appear wide-eyed, un-foolable, non-gullible and cynical whilst simultaneously encouraging people not to actually think about things too much.

I do think it's interesting and wonder if that's the direction of travel for most people's thinking - such as it is - about Brexit.

I do find people's willingess to contemplate, equably, such a big hit to their/our well-being and living-standards quite baffling.

And I guess that thread helps me to work out how they're managing that equable contemplation.

OliviaD68 · 11/03/2018 17:15

Which thread @EmilyAlice ?

mrsreynolds · 11/03/2018 17:20

Is there a list of 24th March venues?

KennDodd · 11/03/2018 17:34

You can search for groups in your area here, go to 'Our Groups', then find out if they are doing a march or where the nearest one is.

www.britainforeurope.org/

prettybird · 11/03/2018 17:45

That Travel thread is ShockShockShock

I really can't be faffed with posting on it, but am tempted to point out that not only was travel not as free as people "remember" Hmm, within living memory (and I am not that old Wink although some of the stories I remember are the experiences of friends and family ), there used to be controls on how much money you could take out of the country Shock. Therefore people used to do things like book the whole journey in advance, eg to the top of the Jungfrau, via their travel agent, so that they would have sufficient spending money for the rest of the trip. Long trips were especially problematic. Sad

When I worked in France as an assistante in 79/80 (so after we joined the EEC but before the Single Market) as part of my degree, I had to go and register at the Hotel de Ville. I was also only able to open a decent bank account because one of the teacher's husband worked in a bank. Otherwise I would have had to open a special "foreigner's" account.

OliviaD68 · 11/03/2018 17:54

Thanks @AgnesSkinner. Yes I was aware of all this.

I find it rather comforting. It's so bad I don't see how the UK can ever go there. It's one of the aspects of this Brexshit madness that will prevent it from ever happening.

thecatfromjapan · 11/03/2018 18:28

I'd love to think you're right, Olivia. Sadly, I think I read the decampment of key ERG figures for groups advising and lobbying for post-EU trade and trade deals as quite ominous. They are clearly going where they think the money will be.

SwedishEdith · 11/03/2018 18:30

I know at that travel thread. We're gonna need some bloody bigger boats. The complacency is shocking. Well, was, fortunately some sane people have actually started posting other than the "Ra ra, it's going to brilliant. No idea how and not interested in finding out".

thecatfromjapan · 11/03/2018 18:31

My theory about the whole 'Back to the golden Past' nonsense is that they were children. So, of course they don't remember the lack of choice, restrictions on taking money out, pain of setting up visas in advance. And they seem to have no handle on the restrictions about getting a job abroad, either (the "I had a relative who worked in France as a doctor" is a corker. Grin).

I think Brexit appealed a little bit to people's desire to be soothed softly to sleep, have dinner made for you, have mum and dad tell you what to do, and just be a child generally.