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Brexit

Westministenders: One for the Women

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 08/03/2018 10:23

Just remember that women are more likely to be worried about Brexit.

Their women's and workers rights are more at risk from departure from the EU, the ECJ and potentially the EHCR.
They are more likely to be worried as EU citizens in the UK due to taking time to have and raise families.
They are more likely to have been badly affected by austerity and an economic downturn will hit them first.
If they are leavers they are more likely to have changed their minds.
They are less likely to be MPs so have less representation.
They are more likely to be feeling politically unrepresented by any party and unsure of who they will vote for at the next election.
They are more likely to get abuse for expressing a political opinion. Many report having been subjected to sexual harassment from political colleagues.
They are more likely to be the target of abuse on social media.
They are earn less than their political colleagues, they earn less than their media colleagues, they earn less than their business colleagues. They are less likely to be in powerful lobby groups.

Then there's #metoo

And to cap it off women's groups are finding it hard to get their voice heard, and are frequently being labelled as hysterical or bigoted for merely wanting to discuss things and be reassured that their fears are acknowledged. They are frequently dismissed as liars or over sensitive.

This is 2018.

It doesn't feel progressive. It doesn't look equal.

Brexit has more of an impact on women.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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mrsreynolds · 09/03/2018 19:24

After my uber depressing post earlier I would like to point out 2 happy things this week;
EDL leaders jailed😁
Martin shkreli jailed for 7 years 😁

Mightybanhammer · 09/03/2018 19:28

The poisoned spy story has very effectively eclipsed the EU announcement about Ireland, hasn't it. ( ie that Border issue must be solved before negotiations can continue.)

lakeshoreliving · 09/03/2018 19:32

The cost of drugs, everything from cold sore treatment to prescription drugs are eye wateringly expensive in the US, so the profits, if they bring in the same pricing should be huge for them.

thecatfromjapan · 09/03/2018 19:35

Has it? I haven't checked in with mainstream media. The stalling of talks - well, freezing of talks - is all over my timeline.

Echo-chamber, I guess.

But I'm not totally surprised. I live in Brexit-induced fury-gloom. I'm always amazed and astonished when I pop onto the main MN boards and see that people are stressing about a TA in their child's class not passing on school messages correctly, or someone having cut them up in the vegetable aisle, or something.

The spy story is more serious (than TAs and Konsumertrauma), and should, by rights, be analysed with regard to the UK's post-Brexit international position - but I'm guessing that's not happening?

thecatfromjapan · 09/03/2018 19:40

There's a really alarming section in Susan Faludi's Backlash about the impact of privatised health treatment on women specifically (who, I believe, are less likely than men to have health insurance). If I recall correctly (and I may not, given that it's years since I read it - and met her, actually: she was lovely) there were stories about women who had performed medical procedures on themselves, including drinking cranberry juice and passing gall stones (unpleasant) and removing silicone implants in the bath, without anaesthetic (seriously grim).

I think about this a fair bit as I cast back my mind to the posters on MN who claimed they were voting for Brexit because of TTIP - despite being told, again and again, that the best way to protect the NHS was to vote for the EU, who were going to throw TTIP out, and not deliver the NHS into the hands of a right wing government, who longed to open the NHS to private health care providers.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2018 19:45

Flyer beware: Ryanair to sell tickets with Brexit caveat

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/mar/09/flyer-beware-ryanair-to-sell-tickets-with-brexit-caveat?

Unless a transition deal is signed, from September 2018 the airline will include the warning on its tickets: “
This flight is subject to the regulatory environment allowing the flight to take place.”

< What will travel insurance companies do - have a similar caveat ? >

TalkinPeace · 09/03/2018 19:46

thecatfromjapan
If you want to see what the world is really talking about, open an incognito window in Chrome and then click onto "news"
and select "top stories"
it totally removes your usual echo chamber
and is very depressing

Have a look at the New York Times for a useful perspective

lakeshoreliving · 09/03/2018 20:20

When we moved here we were told, "don't worry you have really good health insurance" and we do. We also get paid back anything not covered by our health insurance that the NHS would have covered. We have claimed back thousands via this scheme and we are pretty healthy people we no ongoing chronic conditions.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2018 20:35

Spy mystery: Traitors are not safe on British soil, says Russia

Blatant threats and gloating from Russian State TV

I don't understand why so many Leavers claim to be patriotic, but then keep praising or excusing Putin and Russia

Leavers invent paranoid fantasies about the EU, but ignore Russia organising political assassinations and Russia openly taunting Britain for being powerless to stop them.
It is also Russia who organises cyber attacks against the West.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sergei-skripal-traitors-are-not-safe-on-british-soil-says-russia-skripal-putin-poison-57dmcndzz

State TV mocks ‘industrial quantities’ of deaths Angry

Russian state television, a mouthpiece of the Kremlin, has warned “traitors” not to settle in Britain because of the risk of being killed.

Kirill Kleymenov, a prominent presenter,
predicted death and disease for those who betrayed Russia
in a broadcast about the poisoning of a former spy and his daughter in Salisbury.

TalkinPeace · 09/03/2018 20:38

Putin funded Leave.eu
Putin funded Trump
Putin funded LePen
Putin funded M5s
Putin must be utterly spitting that after a gentle Salisbury lunch they went to buy scratch cards rather than straight home
so died under CCTV and public view
rather than in a house that could be "cleaned" at any time

thecatfromjapan · 09/03/2018 20:45

Agree with both of you.

I, too, find the easy-going acceptance of Russia amongst Leavers very strange.

As a side-issue, that's kind of a warning to the UK that the happy days of ex-friends of Putin money-laundering stashing their cash in the UK are not now so easy.

Ah. The many perils of Brexit.

woman11017 · 09/03/2018 20:49

pain having watched that speech, I think it's a bit more nuanced than STV spin, but still...............
Why would Russian poison Salisbury? They want brexit. Red posited a wee theory about China yesterday.
If BBC is telling us it was Russia, I wonder.........

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2018 20:59

An 85-year-old man died while waiting in a hospital’s accident and emergency unit because of the “dangerous overcrowding of the department”
according to a leaked internal email.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/09/man-died-waiting-in-ae-due-to-overcrowding-says-hospital-official

Northampton general hospital NHS trust’s medical director, Matthew Metcalfe, said in the email, leaked to the Health Service Journal (HSJ)

“Last night a patient died due entirely to the dangerous overcrowding of the department.
The risk we have all been aware of, but may have felt hypothetical, has just happened.”

< That's one hospital. How many around the country ? >

woman11017 · 09/03/2018 21:13

That's one hospital. How many around the country
BigChoc it's a very civilised, polite, M&S is still open, war zone over here. Complete with strange poisoning terrorist events and the army brought in to Salisbury. God help anyone who has any contact with the DWP, HO or needs urgent healthcare. Deportation camps near most large cities.

Modest little thing, but all the EU flags round Parliament are being removed, by BBC, according to one report, ready for Commonwealth visitors next week.

It is well spooky in this england.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2018 21:31

I admit I feel much more secure in Germany than I did in England, woman
I started feeling sensitive about giving my late mother's obviously Arabic maiden name

  • a nasty way of discovering 2nd generation immigrants there, serves no other purpose afaik.
woman11017 · 09/03/2018 21:42

I admit I feel much more secure in Germany than I did in England
Good move, that one BigChoc !
Funny how different it felt here only 10 years ago.

OlennasWimple · 09/03/2018 21:53

A belated place mat king

How many threads are we on now?

TalkinPeace · 09/03/2018 21:58

I admit to feeling sad here
BigChoc and I chat on email : I know where she works, I know roughly what she does
she is a loss to the UK
and Brexit means she will never come home
that is not good for this country
but I cannot blame her decision at all.

My kids will follow her path if they can

Icantreachthepretzels · 09/03/2018 22:05

it's a very civilised, polite, M&S is still open, war zone over here

In a way, that's what is the scariest thing. At least if it were open warfare in the streets we'd at least all know where we were - and people wouldn't look at you like you were bonkers when you tried to tell them what was going on.

But all this - quietly removing everything that's good and secure about the country and leaving hardship and cruelty in its place...it's a bit like the time Voldemort took over the ministry of magic.

woman11017 · 09/03/2018 22:14

This tweet about state of UK NHS:

My personal experience has an Ex nurse manager is that EU staff that normally come to work in NHS as part of EU education & orientation programme have not choose to come

EU numbers of staff at Medway hospital have fallen dramatically because of general climate of chaos in UK

The only truth that's being written about what's happening here is not in English. I've noticed that when #The3Million or other tweet in other languages it is a lot franker and more accurate about the seriousness of what is happening.

I agree TalkinPeace our loss, but pleased for anyone who has gotten out. I would leave in a trice.

RedToothBrush · 09/03/2018 22:20

Re private health insurance and women, not all automatically cover pregnancy and childbirth as a default, the clauses about c sections and eligibility are rotten to the core. There are various known cases where insurers have tried and get out of paying.

Quick google and this is one of the top results:
[https://www.money.co.uk/health-insurance/pregnancy-cover.htm]

I quote:
^What is not covered?
Most policies do not pay out for the health conditions that usually come with pregnancy like morning sickness, aches and pains. This is because insurers see pregnancy as a planned choice, and not as an unexpected health condition.^

And
What can it pay for?
Pregnancy treatment
Some policies can pay for treatment for emergencies or complications related to maternity like:

Caesarean sections
Gestational diabetes
Eclampsia
Miscarriage

Note the words some policies

Why isnt pregnancy covered routinely?

boughtbymany.com/news/article/private-health-insurance-pregnancy-uk/

Is pregnancy covered by health insurance?
In a word, no. Health insurance does not cover pregnancy as it is deemed as a lifestyle choice.

This reason alone is good enough to fight tooth and claw to prevent the NHS from being privatised. Even if you can afford private cover, it doesn't necessarily include maternity coverage and many policies that do also have a period you have to wait before you are eligible to make a claim.

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RedToothBrush · 09/03/2018 22:47

Kirsty Hughes @ kirstys_hughes
Corbyn’s speech to Scottish Labour conference, Dundee – confusion and contradictions on Brexit or why is Labour not opposing Brexit? a thread 1.
Corbyn “Make no mistake about it, reduced access to European markets means fewer economic opportunities for people in the UK.”
Absolutely correct, but Corbyn’s own conditions & criteria mean reduced access – there is no ‘job’s first’ Brexit 2.
Corbyn: “we will not accept an off the peg model for our future relationship with the European Union” – Sounds like May saying not Norway, not Canada – but EU is offering Norway or Turkey or Canada. 3.
^
Corbyn: “the option of a new UK customs union with the EU would need to ensure the UK has a say in future trade deals.” The UK has a vote & veto on EU trade deals as an EU member state: the UK will not have a vote outside the EU – surely Corbyn knows this. 4.^
Corbyn wants a say on single mkt rules ‘we cd not accept a situation where we were subject to all EU rules..yet had no say in making those laws. That wd leave us as mere rule-takers & isn’t a tenable position.’ But outside EU, UK has no vote, outside EEA no say: he rejects both 5
In this magical world outside EU/EEA, according to Corbyn, the UK not only gets a say/is not a rule-taker, but gets opt-outs too “..we would want to negotiate protections or exemptions where necessary from current rules and directives..” 6.
Corbyn wants: “a deal that gives us full tariff-free access to the single market” But it’s EU regulations, laws, the 4 freedoms that gives full access to the single mkt & remove non-tariff barriers. Tariff-free trade wd still mean less acess, lower trade, lower growth 7.
Corbyn wants to prevent “employers being able to import cheap agency labour to undercut existing pay and conditions..” but expert evidence is that free movement has not undermined wages; & no full single mkt access without free movement 8.
Corbyn: “retaining the benefits of the customs union and the single market is vital to future Labour governments in both Holyrood and Westminster”. This is full cake & eat it mode given the above. 9.
Corbyn also suggests in a customs union outside single mkt, he can solve N Ireland border by ensuring “that there are no tariffs with Europe and avoid any need for a hard border in Northern Ireland.” But cherry-picking the single mkt means a hard border can’t be avoided10.
Why will Corbyn not oppose the huge political, economic, social, & security damage from Brexit & demand 2nd EU referendum? “As democratic socialists we respect the result of the referendum” – this in Scotland where 62% voted remain, in a UK where 52% now support remain. 11.
In summary, Corbyn wants UK to be outside EU but have a say in its trade policy, outside EU’s single mkt but have a say in its rules, full access & a range of opt-outs; he wants all benefits, new exemptions, no rethinking of Brexit. This isn’t jobs-first nor internationalist. 12.

I think one of the most interesting comments i've seen on Corbyn's speech is this:

Election Data @ election_data
What a strange place and time for JC to exhibit his Euroscepticism

Also from this thread by
Stephen Bush @ stephenkbush
Understandably, a lot of people will focus on the wages bit, but the more interesting bit is that this, overall, is an explicitly left Eurosceptic speech.

Conor Duffy @ conorduffy_7
Similar to the kind of stuff used to say about the EU before becoming Labour leader. Wonder why he's comfortable being more explicit again now.

Nick Simpson @ iamnicksimpson
It definitely feels as if we’re concurrently accepting that a) Brexit is a terrible idea and b) we’re going to go through with it anyway.

Hence, maybe, Corbyn feeling emboldened to show his true eurosceptic colours.

GOsbourneGenuis @ GOsbourneGenuis
Grim.
He thinks he's run down the clock long enough to ensure a hard Brexit so he doesn't have to lie any more.
Took all his supporters for fools.

I'd hazard another theory. We have local elections coming up. They figure they have London sewn up. So Corbyn can do some pitching to more euro sceptic places.

Also i've hazard hes effectively doing the same as Johnson. Pitching a hard Brexit, because the movement in the party is in the opposite direction. He's pulling a loyalty card here to stop it to try to ensure a harder brexit and force mps in the party to tow his line.

Either way, its a clear sign of his personal position. Anyone with hope he'd listen to remainers should be sorely disappointed.

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RedToothBrush · 09/03/2018 23:10

Jane Merrick @ janemerrick23
More fearless reporting from @xtophercook and @LucindaCDay on #Newsnight on bullying & harassment in Westminster - despite the denials & claims the testimonies keep coming. When they’re up to “Woman L” you know there’s a serious widespread problem.

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Hasenstein · 09/03/2018 23:16

Woman

I'm a bit concerned when you say " I've noticed that when #The3Million or other tweet in other languages it is a lot franker and more accurate about the seriousness of what is happening."

I've been a member of The 3Million practically since its inception, but don't do Twitter. What are they saying differently to what I read from their regular updates in English? Do you mean that they downplay the seriousness when communicating in English? Why do they feel constrained to apply self-censorship? Sounds extremely worrying if this is indeed the case.

woman11017 · 09/03/2018 23:21

I think so Hasenstein they have called it for what it is. Many have lived in countries which have been through this before. The state media is censoring; we are too.
Oh Jeremy Corbyn. Sad