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Brexit
Original poster

Westminstenders: Break Up or Make Up?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/02/2018 07:53

The next week or so appears to be yet another crunch point (not that any of these crunch points have actually resolved anything so far).

The EU is set to outline the plan for Ireland. Which everyone thought had already been outlined and agreed already. And it had been admitted was legally binding.

Except apparently we don't want to do that, and we are now crying about how the EU want to break up Britain (nothing to do with England wanting to leave the EU and Scotland and NI wanting to stay in it of course).

Jeremy Corbyn has now apparently decided that the customs union is a good idea. David Davis and Liam Fox have responded by saying that this would stop us making our own trade deals. Yes this has obviously stopped Turkey, and why aren't we doing as much trade with China etc as Germany anyway? A vote in the HoC looms before Easter. Will Tory rebels support.

Will Jeremy Corbyn bow to pressure over the single market too? The customs union alone does not stop the border issue in Ireland. Nor does it stop ridiculous queues at Dover. I'm not sure Corbyn is one for listening though. He's got a whiff of power and democracy and reality is just a hindrance to utopia.

As for the Great Repeal Bill. Word has it, its not going too clever in the HoL. The conservatives had something of a show of strength with an unusual number turning up for the debate. But few on the backbenches were willing to speak in favour of...

It all feels like we are making no progress at all. We are still bleating on about cherry picked deals as if this is a negotiation. Its not.

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Sostenueto · 07/03/2018 22:53

Exactly Clarissa and well said. Its a bit like the 'savvy people' who luckily moved out a chunk of money in the nick of time... Oh and another point, the majority of people who voted leave were middle- aged and middle class. Can't see them wanting to go to Blackpool somehow.

Sostenueto · 07/03/2018 22:56

I'm lucky really. In the government report on the effects of Brexit my area was said to be the worst off whether we were in the EU or out of the EU so I don't need to worry anymore about Brexit!

Original poster
RedToothBrush · 07/03/2018 22:57

Lots and lots of conspiracy theories floating around tonight about the spy poisoning.

This is one:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/07/poisoned-russian-spy-sergei-skripal-close-consultant-linked/amp/?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true
Poisoned Russian spy Sergei Skripal was close to consultant who was linked to the Trump dossier

Personally I don't think we are going to get past conspiracy theories on a public level. So best treated as such. I'm not surprised to see this in here though. Its not just about russian traitors its also about humiliating the British security services, whoever is behind it.

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BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2018 23:13

clarissa It depends if you can move to an E27 country before Brexit - and support yourself there by working or other means - while you still have the right as an EU citizen to do so.

In most / all E27 countries, once you have lived lawfully there 5 years, you can get indefinite leave to remain.

Brexit is 29 March 20 19;
if there is a transition period, it will be until at least Dec 2020,
but then probably will be extended a few more years, because the UK won't have FTAs.
So probably enough time

If you have a useful skill that gets you a job in an E27 country, then if need be, your employer would get you a visa after Brexit.
Continue working there until you have your 5 years and apply for indefinite leave to remain.

Sostenueto · 07/03/2018 23:18

It was the Russians that did the poisoning, no a bit obvious, hang on maybe it was the Americans? no, they're too busy starting a trade war. Can't be the Irish, they're too busy trying to find the border. Omg! Then it must be the........brexiteers!

Sostenueto · 07/03/2018 23:18
Grin
Original poster
RedToothBrush · 07/03/2018 23:18

And tweet of the day goes to...

Gavin Williamson MP @ gavinwilliamson
Concerned that Staffordshire County Council will no longer be supporting a number of bus services in #SouthStaffordshire. I have created a petition in response to this which I encourage you to sign.

Just so you aren't in any doubt, this is a Tory Cabinet minister, responsible for austerity, writing to a Conservative council to complain about austerity.

I hope he gets a letter just like David Cameron got from Oxford County Council.

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Sostenueto · 07/03/2018 23:21

Can't be them either because they're all in BlackpoolGrin

Sostenueto · 07/03/2018 23:22

That is ace red!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2018 23:25

I always remember this:

“Tories believe government is bad and whenever elected, immediately set about proving it” Grin

Sostenueto · 07/03/2018 23:34

BigchocfrenzyGrin

Original poster
RedToothBrush · 07/03/2018 23:43

Don't be stupid Sostenueto.

Its a North Korean agent at the behest of the Chinese.

The north koreans used a nerve agent in an assassination last year, so we know they are trained to do this. They have done it to keep the Chinese on side, as they are desperate to keep what little trade they can because of the impact of sanctions.

The Chinese are framing Russia because they are well aware of the relationship between Russia and the White House. An alliance between Moscow and Washington would be dangerous and harm Chinese interests.

Trying to make Russia look hostile also plays to destablising Trumps America and is also a warning to him, not to start a trade war.

They want to make a point to Russia, and by making Russia the bad guys and with America First, they are looking to cosy up to the EU.

Why on British soil? Simple. Cos they also want to put the wind up the UK and scare them away from Russia and American influence. Whilst Brexit could be a business opportunity for them, they'd also like to access the EU market and they think they will have a better chance to do that if the uk stay in the EU because we'll talk the rest of the EU around. Plus they need some stability in the world, with Trump around and the Eu is well placed to do that given Russian involvement in the US and Trump being so anti-China.

Of course they can't do this themselves or even risk being caught doing it themselves, but they can use North Korea as the UK won't nuke them and they then have plausible deniability.

Mark my words, the plot twist is that its always who you think its least likely to be, there is always a blackmailed coconspirator who is the fall guy and its never the most obvious suspect.

Therefore it MUST be China.

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lakeshoreliving · 07/03/2018 23:49

We are being sold down the river but not by Mrs R who just has had a piece of random luck fall her way. Brexit will still cost her financially in the same way it will cost us all. Despite being able to give her DC a way out of it she is still on this thread engaging with the anger and distress of those with no way out. I think what we all want is to be able to stay as UK citizens who are also EU citizens as well, with the opportunities that are offered from this available to all and benefits felt the country as a whole.

Clarissalarissa · 07/03/2018 23:50

Bigchoc- won't get a position abroad. So essentially would just be hoping for a v long transition period, to avoid being chucked out?

Clarissalarissa · 07/03/2018 23:51

Wonder how many people have left for the Eu in the past few months, and are just hoping for the best.

Clarissalarissa · 07/03/2018 23:52

Otherwise, looking at very vague hope of Scottish independence/re-entry. But dread to think how bad things would become over the interim period.

Cailleach1 · 08/03/2018 00:07

Looking more hopeful wrt Education and flights. It is not going to be as good as now, though. We should all know by October.

Original poster
RedToothBrush · 08/03/2018 00:13

October? Your hopeful. It'll run over by at least a month.

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BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2018 00:24

red Barnier & co have repeated often that October is the last possible date for the withdrawal deal / transition period to be voted on by the EU, by 38 Parliaments & Regional Assemblies

So, if there is no deal by October, it's
either a no-deal crash out on 29 March 2019
or the A50 clock will have to be stopped, without the UK having new MEPs after the 2019 EP elections

BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2018 00:24

Clarissa Can you move to the RoI or even NI ?

thecatfromjapan · 08/03/2018 00:25

MrsR was pretty clear that she resented having to pay for something that was free for everyone, she resented it being taken away from everyone, and she resented that it was now becoming something only a few people can buy - for a substantial sum of money. Yes, she's kind of lucky - but only if you forget the fact that no-one conceived of a situation in which you'd have to buy this 3 years ago. So ... the whole situation is utterly, utterly imbecilic.

I think this may very well be the place you can complain about that. We need to complain. It's crazy.

I'm not in the position to buy this for myself or my children. I'm pretty angry with the people who voted for this and the government pushing this through. I'm not angry with MrsR. I get why she's angry. And she's way more angry than smug. Some people are going to be smug - and not give a rat's arse about the unfairness issue. Sad

Roll on a few years and you can bet this is going to be a very divisive issue. It's going to be a valuable commodity.

Honestly, you know the whole 'cycle of grief' thing? I'm back to angry again today. So angry. I'm exhausted by this endless, endless return of the anger.

I just keep on looking at the figures for GDP losses with a FTA. I keep thinking about how hard things are going to be. About the crap I'm going to be fed by the media and politicians (of the Left and Right) as they try to redirect anger away from the people who deserve our anger. I'm seething about how the manipulation is going to play out.

I'm so, so angry.

Clarissalarissa · 08/03/2018 00:29

Wouldn't it be horrible to move abroad and then find yourself booted out in the near future. By which time you would be penniless.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2018 00:31

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/07/russian-spy-police-appeal-for-witnesses-as-cobra-meeting-takes-place

The former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were deliberately poisoned with a nerve agent
in a case that is now being treated as attempted murder, the police counter-terrorism chief has said.

Scotland Yard assistant chief commissioner Mark Rowley said
the police officer who was first to the spot where Skripal was found in Salisbury on Sunday afternoon was “seriously ill” in hospital.
His condition had deteriorated, Rowley said

< with the staff member at the restaurant also ill, looks like once again Putin's hit squad have just scatter-gunned deadly poison in a British city.
They don't care how many random Brits are collateral damage, so long as Putin's enemies are killed slowly & painfully.
Politically … Nothing to see here, move on >

thecatfromjapan · 08/03/2018 00:35

FiL is winding up his business in Spain. It's too complicated to keep going with uncertainty about need for visas, etc. on top of a number of other stresses.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2018 00:53

I work in Germany now and our HR says even if there is no Brexit deal for expats, they would easily get a visa for a scientist even an old bag

My previous jobs & residence here apparently count, too
I should be able to stay & retire here (assuming Boris doesn't declare war on Germany, after a bad poem)

My various pensions, except for UK state, have been in Germany for 20 years+, seemed safer.

As always, those of us who are reasonably well off and / or mobile professionals have the best chance of weathering this kind of shit without too much damage.

A Brexit for the better off, no surprise Hmm
Who voted for that ?

I definitely want to avoid the UK until any possible Brexit chaos, like empty shelves or no flights, is over