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Brexit

Westministenders: KAAAAABBBOOOOOOOOMMMMM

992 replies

RedToothBrush · 30/01/2018 00:18

'Quick' Recap.

Once upon a time, despite warnings to the contrary after previously attempting to recreate a speech from the 1930s, Theresa May triggered a50.

A series of events, which included a disastrous unnecessary General Election and losing seats, ensured that we have Brexit by Timetable in which every piece of goodwill was burnt up a long time ago, and the EU decided to go "see ya then".

Only this General Election, made this politically impossible as well as practically impossible, given how this would destroy our economy.

So May did the only thing she could and agreed to lock us in with sufficient progress deal, which is legally binding, if no deal is agreed. Thus giving us in essence a choice between staying in the Single Market and Customs Union due to NI or breaking an international agreement which would destroy all our international credibility and trust.

Except none of the Brexiteers really grasped what was happening. Until this week.

In the meantime we still have had spectacles of Nadine Dorries asking on the infamous WhatsApp Group why we can't stay in the CU. Any Davis saying that he has now apparently 'changed his mind' on the matter. Not that Labour are any better, with Corbyn saying we can't stay in the Single Market and leave the EU. Except of course, Norway is in the Single Market...

Fast forward through a sex scandal that's swept through Westminster, installing self appointing the vampiric Gavin Williamson as Defence Secretary, we eventually ended up with a reshuffle which was possibly as pointless and as successful as the General Election. And Gavin Williamson is caught up in a sex scandal.

May has managed to drag the Great Repel Bill through the Commons, without breaking the party, but with much back room dealing and compromise with Remainers. Hailed as something of a victory by Brexiteers, this rather is a fools paradise. At what price to their ideological purity did this come? Is there much Brexit left? And there is much more to come in the Lords, with the LDs committed to working with Labour on securing at least 10 amendments. The two parties have a majority in the Lords if they work together.

Away from parliament we have had the glorious demise of Toby Young, who is forever to be remembered for eugenics.

As it has become apparent that we are increasingly looking like we are on track for BINO, the EU have told us, that we should have sucked up a compromise proposal earlier and now the Norway Option is off the table as we fucked that up by taking too long to disagree amongst ourselves and being arses to EU citz. I paraphrase slightly here, but that's about he long and short of it. Instead we get the pleasure of 21 months of the EU interfering in our law without representation. And we are already locked into this. Now Leavers can moan about this, and shock horror, actually be correct about it too! Transition will be up to 31st Dec 2020 at the latest. Which realistically is still too soon, not that any lying arsed Brexiteer is willing to admit to this. Yet.

The only way to get out of this proposal for better terms? Either beg the EU for something there is no way they will give us or revoke / extend a50.

The fall out from May's reshuffle is still going on in slow motion. Rees-Mogg has got a bigger platform to spout shit he knows nothing about, admit that he has never changed a nappy nor wiped his own arse, thinks women should give birth to football teams, and how he has never visited IKEA and has no plans to do so. Johnson has tried to build bridges. And effed that one up again. Gove has made us all be obsessed by plastic straws and turn into environmental maniacs because no other minister is good at press releases and media stunts. Arch Remainac Liddington, got Deputy PM and took over Brexshit even more from DExEU. Hunt is in no way after becoming PM and Greening is really pissed and when straight back to lead from the Naughty Step.

To cut the long story short: they all hate May and think she's shit

There are thought to be nearly 48 letters to trigger a leadership election in Graham Brady's hands. But not quite. And its not about the letters its about needing 159 MPs to no confidence her... but that is starting to sound more and more plausible in the face of Brexshit hitting the fan.

We now have a leaked impact assessment that we really were not supposed to see which is slightly less worse than Project Fear. But not by much. Its supposed to be by DExEU. Its been suggested that its actually by alt-DExEU aka the Cabinet Department (Robbins and Liddington).

Anyway, nothing is decided. May might zombie on forever. She won't, she's in a crowded field of Tories with stakes. But that sub-committee meeting on Wed 7th Feb is crunch time for something or someone.

Tick tock, tick tock, went the Brexit Clock.

Oh yeah and there's going to be a trade war between the US and EU. And there's some stuff about a ex-Belize diplomat. And Trump's coming to visit us.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
67
brownelephant · 07/02/2018 12:56

her inability to not answer questions directly infuriates me.

'I'm perfectly clear that .....non answer...'
repeat repeat repeat if pushed.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 07/02/2018 12:58

I think I can guess the answer to this but how effective was JC at being opposition?

prettybird · 07/02/2018 13:00

I missed the beginning - only saw the 2nd half - but I believe that he focussed on crime figure statistics Confused

LondonMum8 · 07/02/2018 13:21

how effective was JC at being opposition?

Special agent Corbyn opposes alright, any ideas that would take Britain off the path to becoming Venezuela of Europe instead of Gateway to Europe.

woman11017 · 07/02/2018 13:26

@DancingTheMind
Dr Lauren Gavaghan #NHSLove Retweeted Jonathan Ashworth
Great news. And super work by #jr4nhs with imminent legal action to challenge Jeremy Hunt & ask why such a huge NHS restructure going on without public consultation/ parliamentary scrutiny.

Also note recent change in branding: ACO’s to be known as “integrated health systems”Dr Lauren Gavaghan #NHSLove added,

@JonAshworth
Following my question today in Commons re concerns over so called Accountable Care Organisations and role of private sector, ministers have now agreed to delay laying relevant regulations on ACOs until after public consultation

DGRossetti · 07/02/2018 14:13

So please pity Theresa May and her top ministers,

Oh do fuck off. Fuck off to the far side of fuck and stay fucked off.

As iterated previously, I have not one shred of pity for this bunch of self serving corrupt incompetent arsewipes.

Their mess. They can own it. They can deal with it. And they can deal with the consequences.

Running the country should not be a game of Buckaroo, or Ker-Plunk (any journalists can have that one one me Smile).

mrsreynolds · 07/02/2018 14:15

Fuck a doodle do

DGRossetti · 07/02/2018 14:20

I think I can guess the answer to this but how effective was JC at being opposition?

Opposing what exactly ?

Nothing has been decided (which cuts both ways). So how do you "oppose" it ?

I'm ambivalent about JC ... I am quite prepared to back a Brexit-reversing/reconsidering/abandoning Labour party. But I also understand why they may feel they can't commit to anything in the absence of a contrary position.

The phrase about "keeping powder dry" seems apposite.

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 07/02/2018 14:23

Always good to have an excuse to roll this out

Westministenders: KAAAAABBBOOOOOOOOMMMMM
DGRossetti · 07/02/2018 14:34

@Dobby1sAFreeElf

Ah, thank you Grin. Anglo-Saxon at it's most sublime ....

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 07/02/2018 14:40

So how do you "oppose" it ?

By pointing out the flaws in what's being proposed? Asking questions about the Tory position on the NHS etc? Pinning down May on specifics as to whether the NHS will be opened up to America (granted, pinning May down on anything is probably too much to expect a mere mortal to do - Kuenssberg's interview with her was a spectacle to behold).

And about Brexit specifically, asking about the border, customs union, economic impact, rights of EU citizens or any one of the numerous issues that the Tories are seeking to fudge/kick into the long grass and are managing to do exactly that because the press/opposition won't hold them accountable for their plans. And that's in part because Labour's position is the same as the Tories (undefined though it may be) so they can't ask difficult questions as they'd be interrogating their own stance.

prettybird · 07/02/2018 14:56

Even when May is asked the specific questions (like whether the NHS is for sale or about the Irish border), she doesn't answer the question Angry

One of my major frustrations about PMQs is that there is no come back for the questioner - he or she can't point out that the question wasn't actually answered. It's just an opportunity for grandstanding on both sides Angry

It's then left up to the journalists and political commentators to point out the discrepancies in the answers - and we know how good they have been at going that Hmm although recently they have been getting better

DGRossetti · 07/02/2018 14:58

By pointing out the flaws in what's being proposed?

but what is being proposed ?

Last year we were "in" the CU and SM. Now we're not in the CU, before that there was to be a hard border in Ireland. Now there isn't.

It's a moving target.

If you aimed at "proposals" you'd have run out of ammunition before 2017.

It is frustrating (possible deliberately so) but the best thing is to wait until something actually has to go before parliament. That's concrete. That can be debated in full and a position constructed.

I have to say I think there's also a slight element of gamesmenship on Labours part here ... by way of illustration ...

What Brexit would you like ?
Er, what sort have you got ?
Ah, now, no clues ...

If Labour were to have a detailed, thought out, maybe even workable Brexit plan, then they only sure thing in life is the Tories would then be able to produce the exact opposite to universal Tory support.

It's too early to tell yet, but the "JC issue" could turn out one of two ways ... either he really is a dithering dickwad who can't come to a decision; or he's a seasoned parliamentarian who say what did for Foot and Kinnock, and is playing the Tories like a fine-tuned violin.

Motheroffourdragons · 07/02/2018 15:02

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 07/02/2018 15:05

prettybird I caught a segment on radio 4 (can't remember what it was but might have been the media show) about how the advent of social media has caused politicians to grandstand even more as they use PMQs to deliver speeches/watchable moments, often only tenuously linked to the question, if at all, that are then clipped and shared on social media.

DGRosetti but surely even pointing out that nothing has been proposed even thought it's been 19 months since the triggering of article 50 is a valid point to keep hammering home? Highlighting the ineptitude is part of the role of opposition surely?

prettybird · 07/02/2018 15:16

Motheroffourdragons

whispers.....Blush

As an illustration of how bad May has been, I was watching Andrea Leadsom on the news last night talking about the achievements of the suffragettes and the work still to be done, and the thought flitted across my brain which then needed bleaching that she might actually have, after all, been better than May ShockBlushShockBlushShockBlush

Motheroffourdragons · 07/02/2018 15:21

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Motheroffourdragons · 07/02/2018 15:27

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

DGRossetti · 07/02/2018 15:29

DGRosetti but surely even pointing out that nothing has been proposed even thought it's been 19 months since the triggering of article 50 is a valid point to keep hammering home? Highlighting the ineptitude is part of the role of opposition surely?

You may be right ... I'm just looking at all angles.

There may also be an elephant in the room, in the shape of the FTPA. After all, no amount of highlighting incompetence is going to lead to anything if it can't end in an election ?

The old curse of being careful what you wish for has never seemed so true. I was a massive fan of the FTPA. Now we've got it .....

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 07/02/2018 15:44

Faisal Islam
@faisalislam
NEW:
Leaked internal Government Brexit assessment shows No Deal economic hit to Northern Ireland at 12% over next decade and a half.

North East England at 16%. 11% even with comprehensive EU trade deal - Sky sources

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 07/02/2018 16:02

Jo Maugham QC‏Verified account
@JolyonMaugham
I'm very pleased to say that the District Judge in Amsterdam has decided to refer questions to the CJEU. More to follow...

More about the case that, with @bureauBrandeis' considerable assistance, we were able to bring here.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/18/dutch-case-britons-eu-rights-brexit-uk-citizens?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

A copy of the Decision of the District Court can be seen here

linksharing.samsungcloud.com/1518013756465CMqapPS

I spoke about the case to the Dutch daily, NRC, here.

www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/02/06/de-advocaat-voor-alle-britten-ook-die-in-berlijn-barcelona-en-bratislava-a1591106

Steve Bullock
‏*@GuitarMoog*
Important thread, and fantastic news that the question of whether we can have our EU Citizenship removed from us will be referred to the CJEU.

prettybird · 07/02/2018 16:02

I presume that "No-Deal" impact on NI is looking purely at the economic effects - and doesn't even touch on the potentially catastrophic impact on the hard-won peace process Sad

AgnesSkinner · 07/02/2018 16:06

North East England at 16%. 11% even with comprehensive EU trade deal

Will Sunderland be asking for Brexit Special Status in the same way as Grimsby?

Motheroffourdragons · 07/02/2018 16:12

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Sostenueto · 07/02/2018 16:18

Lurking enjoying discussions and learning a lot.