The Brexit Arms

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Welcome to The Brexit Arms!
Looking forwards, not backward!

All welcome 🍺

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corcory a lot of building regs are a mixture of UK and EU requirements, so a nightmare to unpick. Plus the UK government is signed up to stringent carbon reduction measures so most of the environmental requirements for instance will have to stay.

I'm not suggesting we make things less safe but that they may want to make them more safe!
Why would we want to reduce the rights of workers? I can't see any political party pushing that as a good idea!
There are regulations that we my want to tighten such as these to do with Zero hours contract and the increasing practice of 'employing' people as self employed contractors.

I was at a meeting Bear where the many problems of the current 'new' forms being used by social workers which had loads of irrelevant questions on them. This made them much longer and were very difficult to cope with for many elderly and infirmed people and these with mental impairments. The form itself was gone through in great detail and questions on it were discussed. The head of children's services explained why the questions were being asked in that they had had to change the forms because of a European directive. It was decided at the meeting that the social workers would take the old form with them to future interviews and fill in the new forms afterwards.
I have detailed minutes of this meeting Bear but I have no intention of copying these onto a public forum.

corcory even if you did share your minutes they wouldn't mean anything. My point is the person who told you the questions were an EU directive might have got it wrong.

I'm not aware of regulations being so prescriptive the specify exactly what questions need to be asked in every circumstance.

Blaming the EU is an easy cop out; the reality is far more likely to either be a misinterpretation of the regulations or nothing to do with the EU at all.

Bear, I have known the head of children's services for many years and know she is very 'pro Europe' so I have no reason to believe she of all people would blame the EU for this.

@Bearbehind

That has to take the biscuit.

Someone who works and was at a meeting.
WHICH YOU WERE NOT ANYTHING TO DO WITH>
They must be wrong or have misheard, so your EU doesn't get the blame for medaling...

As far as I know nothing prevents UK regs from being more stringent than EU regs, corcory.

What makes you say the EU prevents us from going beyond whatever regs they come up with?

It already happens ... the UK's mortgage regulations are FAR more stringent than the EU Credit Directive stipulates for example ...

No mummmy, I'm simply pointing out the fact corcory cannot provide reference to where this was stated by the EU therefore it's not beyond possibitly that it's not actually anything to do with the EU.

I'm sick of people blaming everything on the EU without backing it up.

How are you getting on with the request for the top 3 EU regulations hat affected you?

Oh dear, so sorry Bear but the computer says "NO." to your reuest,
Having tried many times i have no intentions of setting myself up for one of your rants.

Yes Olivia the EU regs would be the bare minimum. We could go above and beyond that, in fact we do. I heard an interesting farming program on radio 4 yesterday at a pig farm on the border of N Ireland and Ireland. He said that the UK were drivers in animal welfare regs and that he had had to change his farming methods to be able to export into the UK. Apparently a part of every single pig raised in Ireland is exported into the UK.

I honestly can't believe that people can be upset about rules that make our life better like clean air regs.

Listen I am an ordinary mum and carer and can only reiterate what I have seen or been told. To suggest that without full back up of links to references then my view is worthless seems a bit ridiculous Bear.
We are not all up in court here, even politicians and others called to speak to select committees are allowed to give their opinions on things they are involved in without being asked for detailed references.

We are having a discussion on Mumsnet, that is all!

corcory no one is saying you are in court. That's a typical Leaver response when it is pointed out that your comments are based on nothing more than hearsay.

mummmy, don't worry, we all know you aren't responding because you actually can't think of a single EU regulation that adversely affected you personally.

Bear so great to know we can all bow down to you ,, she who knows it all,

Pity you attack mode concept isn't working this time.. Just because I won't do something, doesn't mean anything except I refuse to provide you with your normal from of info to have a go at me...

mummmy, the whole point of a discussion forum is that you actually discuss things.

This constant cycle of saying things then refusing to engage any further when you get called out on your comments makes it a bit pointless really.

You know as well as I do that you don't have any examples of EU rules that were detrimental to you because nothing actually affected you adversely.

It's just Leavers bravado making out the EU are the cause of all evil.

This constant cycle of saying things then refusing to engage any further when you get called out on your comments makes it a bit pointless really.

Yes, and it's also funny that a lot of Leavers are so sure and firm of their opinions until or unless someone asks them to say how they actually think the thing works/what the problem is/how they would implement their suggestion, and then they retreat into 'Well I don't know, I'm just Joe Schmoe, I trust the politicians to sort it out'…

My point was that the EU are involved in everyday life.
I have proved this point.
How or what they are detrimental to my life was not the point of the comment, should I descend to your level and list anything you will do what you always do, I have not wish to follow this course of actions so as is my right I refuse to go into the minute details.

I have never called the EU evil. however I was asked did I wish to step back for the EU, I said yes, and this is what is happening.

'Well I don't know, I'm just Joe Schmoe, I trust the politicians to sort it out'…

Oh you mean this isn't what is happening right now.

Remainers really must think their every written word is printed and laid on the PM's table....... GET REAL...

Perhaps you're deliberately misunderstanding me, mummy.

I've no illusions about Theresa M et al listening to me, or carefully reading and taking into account, what online forums or letters to 10 Downing St say .

My point, which is quite different from the one you're claiming I make, is that there is a Leaver behaviour which is to first assume a pose of certitude and then, if asked to show any proof to back up their assertion, hold up their hands and regress: 'Oh I'm just a little ordinary person, what would I know? We just have to trust the government. I'm sure they'll sort it out.'

Which, as has been observed, doesn't do much to develop or move on a discussion.

@MichaelBendfaster has kindly hit the nail on the head there.

Bear - My comments are not based on hear say. I have been in an official meeting at a carers centre with the head of a dept. on the council. As far as I'm concerned I have no reason not to believe a dept. head. So I would not call that hear say. I would can hear say something a friend told me in the pub that happened to a friend of there's.
It's interesting how you always pounce on leavers and ask for evidence about everything yet so many 'opinions' of remainers go unchallenged. Again and again links are put on here from twitter or from newspaper columnists but never challenged.

You know as well as I do that lots of things stated by leavers are our opinions as we are not in the government or one of the negotiators so can have no proper incite into what is going to happen. We have no idea how the EU will react to our negotiating stance. We are in the throws of negotiating our leaving the EU, something no country of our size has ever done before, so how on earth can we know exactly what is going to happen.

I took the trouble to look for EU directives that might affect filling in forms as described, but couldn't find any. However I did find this regarding Data Protection:
ec.europa.eu/newsroom/just/document.cfm?action=display&doc_id=49245
Looks like leaving the EU will impose all sorts of extra effort when transferring data because of our third country status.

Hear say is what you heard said with no evidence to support it.
So hearsay describes it perfectly.

@MichaelBendfaster

Sorry but I really do think your wrong.
We voted to go, as it's what we wanted, and we knew that it was a reap on the dark, most leavers will agree on this.
We didn't vote for a blueprint, and if it was a feeling that the EU was becoming to evasive of aspects of life, then no we can't provide details, but that doesn't mean we were wrong to vote and then wait and see how and where it took us.
I have been certain of nothing in this whole process, and my comments are my thoughts that is all.
In real life I know all I can and have done is wait , read and listen as it all unfolds.

We have no idea how the EU will react to our negotiating stance. Theresa May and her merry band don't have one.

We are in the throws of negotiating our leaving the EU, something no country of our size has ever done before, so how on earth can we know exactly what is going to happen.

We can have a stab at it. Businesses, finance experts and the government itself, all of whom can be assumed to be in fairly strong positions for estimating/forecasting events, have been doing so.

Of course people like Jacob Rees-Mogg, in persisting with their narrative that everyone else, even their own civil service , must be wrong, serve to muddy the debate and devalue these pieces of evidence.

Bear I asked my dad the same question when he kept going on about getting the meddlesome EU ‘off his back’ and wanting his ‘freedom back’.
After about 24 hours, he triumphantly came up with the fact that the EU had banned the sale of vacuum cleaners above a certain power. This is a man who has never used a vacuum cleaner in his life and probably wouldn’t even know how to plug it in.
So forget 70 years peace, forget his GCs’ right to work or study abroad, forget all the research collaboration, forget the brain drain and the exodus of EU health professionals.
No, we need to leave the EU so that we can use ultra powerful hoovers.
We don’t discuss Brexit anymore.

mummy, apologies but I can't find anything of substance in your post so don't feel I can respond in any very meaningful way.

Apart, maybe, from the use of the word 'feeling' in 'that the EU was becoming to evasive of aspects of life'. (I'm writing this assuming you intended to write 'invasive'.)

A 'feeling' is a rather insubstantial thing on which to cast a vote to set in motion events of such magnitude as the vote to leave the EU.

It would be nice to see some evidence from a Leaver of things the EU does that negatively affect them. Evidence from EU laws and policies themselves, I mean.