Westministenders: Happy Xmas (War is Over) - if only

[RedToothBrush]

When is lying not lying. When you can get enough of your mates to agree it is not lying.

And so we have David Davis, who has made two statements to parliament which deliberately contradict each other and must constitute some sort of lie to parliament at some point however you cut it.

Will the Speaker risk the wrath of his party to uphold democratic values? We watch carefully.

Davis also reveals and exposes May too though. May one way or another is complicit in Davis’s lie, either through not doing her job in reading the reports or by protecting Davis when she knew the reports did not exist. This is gross misconduct in her inability to ensure her staff do their bloody jobs. All so she can keep her own job.

This is where whistleblowers in other institutions pop up.

It has also become apparent that May has not had THE conversation with the Cabinet over what shape Brexit should take. After 18months.
Why not? Is she incapable of consensus building or is she just incompetent?

And then we have the DUP seemingly not being properly being involved in the wording of the all important document.

Vote Leave’s Oliver Norgrove is perfectly right in saying that Hard Brexit is all but dead. Don’t let that make you feel happier. Hard Brexiteers know that there only option now, is No Deal and that’s what they will try and pursue.

There is no deal until everything is settled. Right now, nothing is settled, not even what the UK want out of Brexit, never mind the EU position.

May might well have blown the only opportunity for a deal too, because of her failure over NI and the DUP. Where does she go from here? The idea that she will stand up to anyone, is ludicrous given her track record.

We might all wish we could John Lennon's song was apt when it comes to this Christmas and Brexit, it seems the war for our future post Brexit, it seems it is only just starting.

Yes it must do I think as both no hard border and equivalence across the U.K. are clearly set in stone.

There is still a bit about ‘legally residing in the U.K. at the time of leaving’ which leaves SAHP, carers etc.. in limbo.

I’m not impressed that the EU has agreed to that at all.
There is no change to what the British government said before and its position. No confirmation that EU citizens are ‘safe’ to stay.

mother there is abit about that saying that children and close family will be able to follow the British partner. (Paragraph 12)

So we are in the same position than with the PR card.
If you are married an living in the EU, a British spouse can bring their family.
But if you are married and living in the eu, there is still no guarantee that the eu spouse can stay in the eu.

Or at least, that’s how I understand it.

Brexiters are furious.

Sorry, longtime lurker. In the BBC, it says May says no SM/CU. So does that mean an agreement could be made that's identical to CU/SM but not those words to appease the kippers?

This is basically how I am reading it. They have agreed to create something that matches the SM/CU but isn't the SM/CU at some point in the future. It is a fudge, and just putting off the difficult conversation a little bit longer, but I guess at least it is moving forward in some way.

Trying to remain optimistic here....

So is this the mother of all fudges - we leave the CU/SoM to appease the headbangers, but 'the UK will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.', which means in practice that we can't leave the CU/SoM? That May hopes no one notices the contradictions?

I'm surprised Ireland agreed to this especially if they can't veto now.

I am assuming Ireland would still have some say in the final trade agreement so could veto, or at least make things very uncomfortable, at that stage if they felt a hard border was going to happen after all.

I know it's not acceptable to MN but on another thread there is a picture of Neville Chamberlain and his piece of paper. This just about sums it up.

For me, more positive news is that the Tories lost another by-election last night. I hope that this is a sign that people are waking up to realise that we need better in government. (Probably deluding myself!)

Ireland presumably agreed because they’ve been promised that nothing will change in terms of market access. This means CU and SM at a later point (or a carbon copy of both). It is the fudgiest of all fudges but precisely what realists have been saying from the beginning about cakes and eating them.

"The rights of EU citizens living in the United Kingdom and United Kingdom citizens in the EU27 will remain the same after the United Kingdom has left the EU."

It's taken them 18 months to say this? When it could have been said immediately?

Is driven by the worry of lots of pensioners flooding back, with health care needs? Furthermore, pensioners who find that they are all trying to sell up in Spain so causing a price crash there, and then finding that with property prices in the South East of England being stupid they can't afford it in that area either, so have to go to the more neglected parts of the UK, where said neglect has made the infrastructure unable to cope? Or is that too involved an argument for May, and it's just some words cobbled together?

Peregrina: what election last night?

Sky again much better than BBC on this.

BBC went on about how Tusk was sad about the UK leaving. That is what they took from a speech which said we've taken so long over something which is the easy bit. Now they can move on to the more difficult stuff.

Also, interesting reporting from Fermanagh. Arlene's Fermanagh/South Tyrone constituency. with lovely layer of snow . The reporter said how the DUP had 'permitted' May to do this wording. Ouch.

Local by elections. One in Devon which the LibDems took from the Tories and one in Enfield, which was Labour and they held. The by elections will reduce from now on, for a short while, because seats which become vacant in those places which are due to re-elect councils in May will be left until then. This means that London won't see any more by-elections until after next May.

Isn't the ECJ for EU citizens for a limited time frame? 8 years or something like that. Not indefinitely.

Britain Elects
@britainelects
Newport (North Devon) result:

LDEM: 38.8% (+7.1)
CON: 37.1% (-2.8)
GRN: 15.8% (-12.6)
LAB: 8.3% (+8.3)

Enfield Highway (Enfield) result:

LAB: 69.8% (+23.1)
CON: 26.7% (+7.4)
GRN: 3.4% (-6.0)

No UKIP (-17.8) and BNP (-6.7) as prev.

Isn't the ECJ for EU citizens for a limited time frame? 8 years or something like that. Not indefinitely.

Come on Cailleach "A week is a long time in politics", as Harold Wilson may or may not have said. Who knows what will happen in 8 years? One thing we can be almost 100% sure of, President Trump will be history.

Robert Peston
@Peston
.@michaelgove "Extraordinary, personal political achievement by the prime minister". Important that he has allied himself with @Jeremy_Hunt in pre-empting ardent Brexiteers' inevitable cries of betrayal and attacks on @Number10gov

Jon Worth
@jonworth
Re-reading the deal text part on citizens’ rights - it’s not great. Emphasis is on rights in 1 state, no freedom to go elsewhere.

Basically for Brits in rest of EU: applying for a new passport is the only way to secure FoM.

Listening to Varadkar: twice he makes the point that NI citizens can continue to enjoy the full benefits of EU citizenship if they choose to avail themselves of their right to Irish citizenship.

so they, alone amongst the UK citizens, can have their cake and eat it

Thanks Peregrina. Good news.

I also noted that Varadkar mentioned that there would be "a distinct Irish strand" in the next stage of negotiations.

Sounds like he's got agreement to a continued Irish veto.