Westministenders: Happy Xmas (War is Over) - if only

[RedToothBrush]

When is lying not lying. When you can get enough of your mates to agree it is not lying.

And so we have David Davis, who has made two statements to parliament which deliberately contradict each other and must constitute some sort of lie to parliament at some point however you cut it.

Will the Speaker risk the wrath of his party to uphold democratic values? We watch carefully.

Davis also reveals and exposes May too though. May one way or another is complicit in Davis’s lie, either through not doing her job in reading the reports or by protecting Davis when she knew the reports did not exist. This is gross misconduct in her inability to ensure her staff do their bloody jobs. All so she can keep her own job.

This is where whistleblowers in other institutions pop up.

It has also become apparent that May has not had THE conversation with the Cabinet over what shape Brexit should take. After 18months.
Why not? Is she incapable of consensus building or is she just incompetent?

And then we have the DUP seemingly not being properly being involved in the wording of the all important document.

Vote Leave’s Oliver Norgrove is perfectly right in saying that Hard Brexit is all but dead. Don’t let that make you feel happier. Hard Brexiteers know that there only option now, is No Deal and that’s what they will try and pursue.

There is no deal until everything is settled. Right now, nothing is settled, not even what the UK want out of Brexit, never mind the EU position.

May might well have blown the only opportunity for a deal too, because of her failure over NI and the DUP. Where does she go from here? The idea that she will stand up to anyone, is ludicrous given her track record.

We might all wish we could John Lennon's song was apt when it comes to this Christmas and Brexit, it seems the war for our future post Brexit, it seems it is only just starting.

He also spent a lot of time on Marr trying to convince everyone his stated sectoral analyses on the impact of Brexit were not to imply that they had done Impact assessments on 56/58 areas 'in excruciating detail'.

Rule of thumb for me now is 'if they open their mouths to speak, they are probably lying'. i don't think I'd believe DD if he told me what he had for breakfast.

Useless too. Even May had to side step him in Brussels.

So basically the EU is saying that we can’t leave the EU because of the GFA.

Interesting that the issue of NI was brushed under the carpet at the time of the referendum....

The more it goes, the more I’m thinking that whatever will happen will equate to not a lot in practice.
At best it will have given people the opportunity to say ‘we’ve left the EU’ even if it’s just in words.
At worst, it’s the entire political system that is going to collapse as well as other parts of the system such as the NHS.
They are proving again and again that the whole system is not fit for purpose

So basically the EU is saying that we can’t leave the EU because of the GFA.

I think it's more a question of the GFA says we can't leave the EU.

Not quite sure what the shock and surprise is. There were several learned articles before the referendum making the point that to leave the EU, the GFA would need to be renegotiated.

I guess the problem is that I don't get paid a small countries GDP to advise the government.

When Cameron was banging on about a British Bill of Rights (for those who can remember) there were a similar slew of articles - by some very clever people - pointing out that the UKs acceptance of the European Convention of Human Rights was baked into almost every aspect of UK law passed since with a particular mention that the GFA was predicated on the UK remaining a signatory.

I'll tell you now, so that you too can call BULLSHIT if anyone tells you it comes as a shock to them.

Of course, we can unilaterally abandon the GFA, and ECHR screaming "you Irish Europeans are all cuntz" at the top of our voices as we sall forth into a Brave New World. Although I imagine that probably doesn't go far enough for the headbanging Brexiteers.

One thing to watch: The UK government has absolutely no interest in protecting "the people" from terrorist atrocities (I'll stop short of suggesting they occasionally seem to benefit from them). 20 years of the IRA picking off innocent civilians versus 1 year of the picking on the City of London rather shows that.

It's more the CU and various legal obligations we can't leave, owing to the GFA.

The EU of FOM, full access to SM for financial services is - sadly - still leavable.

I'd be whooping if the GFA prevented us leaving the EU.

And I agree with Lurking, this isn't a case of the EU saying we can't leave.

It only even vaguely looks that way because 'our' negotiaters clearly hadn't given enough thought, or time, to the ramifications of the relationship between NI and the rest of the UK and the relationship between NI, Ireland and the rest of the UK.

Messy.

Anyone think he reads Westminstenders?

@davidallengreen
Brexiteers have their referendum result and demand a Hard Brexit, but the Good Friday Agreement is even stronger. Like Aslan's deeper magic trumping the Witch's deep magic.

Gavan Reilly‏Verified account
@gavreilly
BREAK: Taoiseach says he’s “delighted” to hear of David Davis remarks this morning - “very happy with the clarification”

John Redwood‏
@johnredwood
If the answer is No to a free trade deal, then the UK needs to ask the second question. What new tariffs and barriers does the EU wish to impose on our exports to them, given that we will likely impose identical barriers on their exports to us?

So basically the EU is saying that we can’t leave the EU because of the GFA.
Interesting that the issue of NI was brushed under the carpet at the time of the referendum.

No that is not so. The UK can walk and renege on the international treaty it signed. It can do the exact opposite of what it said it was going to do. 'Nothing would change'. But put the ball back in the gov't's court and they are showing that those previous words were cheap. It is up to the UK to square circle and come up with the imaginative acceptable solutions.

And by the way, the UK is the co-guarantor of the GFA. They negotiated it. It was supported by 71% of people who voted in NI. You know, part of the UK. Again, it is being talked about about as if it was something from elsewhere and imposed.

There were a few mentions of NI. Always immediately cut down short as no issue and nothing would change. Theresa Villiers was as forthcoming and knowledgeable as a tree trunk. All 'political analysis' programmes took great care to have nobody knowledgeable on TV or else a highly selective spin DUP in relation to NI. Who by the way were against the GFA, which 71% of people who voted in NI, supported.

The UK gov't agreed to the three issues which have to be dealt with and how an orderly withdrawal agreement and future trade deal with have to be within those parameters. The sovereign government of the UK.

I don't get this crazy spin.

David Davis is learning how 'third parties' need to behave in negotiations with the EU.

I wonder what it's like to be DD at the moment? All that sledgehammer, thick skinned bullying and bluster, sidelining of realists in favour of pie-in-sky optimists and yes-people, a home media too supine to call him to account for outright lies and incompetence - all of that suddenly hitting the buffers of reality.

Yes. It is stupid spin.

For a home audience who are fed rubbish from their home media.

The UK can, indeed, walk away.

But at the cost of blowing credibility out of the water at a point when they are about to embark on twenty years of painful trade negotiations.

And at the cost of destroying an agreement (the GFA) which is incredibly important to stability.

The media can dumb it all down as much as it likes but there is only so much damage the UK can do to itself - it's not the EU 'telling them to do something'.

This is about negotiating complex international networks. It's not a primary school classroom.

What new tariffs and barriers does the EU wish to impose on our exports to them, given that we will likely impose identical barriers on their exports to us

And we now know that under WTO, if not in a special agreement, you have to treat all countries in the same way wrt tariffs. So on one hand Leadsom and many bonkers say they will remove all tariffs completely. Now on the other hand Redwood saying they will put tariffs on EU selectively (but will have to be all countries with no deal). The EU have tonnes MRA's and trade deals with other countries.

Mind you, possibly won't affect Redwood. He may have his dosh safely abroad as he has advised others to do.

Self praise is never an objective truth.

The media can dumb it all down as much as it likes but there is only so much damage the UK can do to itself - it's not the EU 'telling them to do something'.

The tabloids are a bit quiet today - more concerned about the weather, which is a useful distraction for them.

John Redwood‏

Should really just tweet "I have no fucking idea what I am on about." every few minutes. Like a lighthouse of dimness.

all that traditional English character stuff about "fair play" disappearing into the ether

That was really just a self-serving, narcissistic fantasy. Just ask any of the former colonies, for example.

Should really just tweet "I have no fucking idea what I am on about." every few minutes. Like a lighthouse of dimness.

Love it LH

It is a mess, but a fascinating one at that. The NI unionists will always put the integrity of the Union before anything else. The Tories will shaft the unionists without hesitation if that's what it takes to secure their hard Brexit.

The GFA can survive in the event of a hard Brexit, but it would be difficult, not least because the Irish government will be unlikely to want to play ball while being shafted by a hard border.

This is from a while ago but shows that NHS workers won't take privatisation without a fight.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-services-cut-in-nottingham-after-doctors-quit-rather-than-work-for-private-firm-9931763.html

The thing i find odd with regards to racism is the way the racists can blank out any wrongdoing by Brits. For example they say that the British culture is being eroded by immigrants, ignoring the fact that most of said immigrants come from countries where we not only colonised them, but eroded their culture and actively pushed conversion to Christianity. One poster on another forum said that this country was built on the hard work of white British people and really did not like it when I pointed out that a lot of the wealth in this country was created by colonising and exploiting other countries, as well as on the hard work of African slaves.
I have said it before but I really do think that we, as a country, have never truly faced up to what we did when we were colonising the world. We would be a better, more forward facing country if we did.

The Tories don't want to be seen to be destroying the NHS, but doing it by stealth, fine.

Local physio services to us have been privatised, with the results that people now have to travel further. Despite that, a spokesperson said that they were 'bringing services to people' or some such twaddle.

Deadwood is at it again...

apparently he says "we have a year to source alternative cheaper food from around the world and for our farms to gear up to produce more at home behind the tariff wall. "

...and who is going to work on those farms then?

Presumably he suggests we will we working on those farms with Morgans, Caterhams and McLarens or horses. Will some-one please tell him the world has globalised.

When will this nightmare end.

we have a year to source alternative cheaper food from around the world and for our farms to gear up to produce more at home behind the tariff wall

pretty apt then that the beebs where showing a couple of weeks ago 'wartime farm' with rationing and the government telljng farmers what to grow.

Of course during the second world war there was the Land Army - my mother as a Land Girl.

Will the government be conscripting people to work on farms?