Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: Happy Xmas (War is Over) - if only

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/12/2017 14:00

When is lying not lying. When you can get enough of your mates to agree it is not lying.

And so we have David Davis, who has made two statements to parliament which deliberately contradict each other and must constitute some sort of lie to parliament at some point however you cut it.

Will the Speaker risk the wrath of his party to uphold democratic values? We watch carefully.

Davis also reveals and exposes May too though. May one way or another is complicit in Davis’s lie, either through not doing her job in reading the reports or by protecting Davis when she knew the reports did not exist. This is gross misconduct in her inability to ensure her staff do their bloody jobs. All so she can keep her own job.

This is where whistleblowers in other institutions pop up.

It has also become apparent that May has not had THE conversation with the Cabinet over what shape Brexit should take. After 18months.
Why not? Is she incapable of consensus building or is she just incompetent?

And then we have the DUP seemingly not being properly being involved in the wording of the all important document.

Vote Leave’s Oliver Norgrove is perfectly right in saying that Hard Brexit is all but dead. Don’t let that make you feel happier. Hard Brexiteers know that there only option now, is No Deal and that’s what they will try and pursue.

There is no deal until everything is settled. Right now, nothing is settled, not even what the UK want out of Brexit, never mind the EU position.

May might well have blown the only opportunity for a deal too, because of her failure over NI and the DUP. Where does she go from here? The idea that she will stand up to anyone, is ludicrous given her track record.

We might all wish we could John Lennon's song was apt when it comes to this Christmas and Brexit, it seems the war for our future post Brexit, it seems it is only just starting.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
43
woman11017 · 10/12/2017 22:03

I'll try to remember Peregrina and get an IT literate son to show me how to do it.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/12/2017 22:03

and with ECJ etc
Pay, No Day indeed, for 2 years or however lomg to negotiate - but not sign - enough FTAs outside the EU
10 years ?

BigChocFrenzy · 10/12/2017 22:03

oops, Pay no Say

woman11017 · 10/12/2017 22:04

OMG if we still had FOM. BigChoc !

Motheroffourdragons · 10/12/2017 22:05

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/12/2017 22:07

We will definitely have all 4 pillars, including FOM and ECJ, woman
But the EU has always said this
This is not a transition, just an extension after A50 because the UK govt is totally unprepared for Brexit and needs much more time

BigChocFrenzy · 10/12/2017 22:27

Adam Boulton@adamboultonSKY
Bored now. Some of you Irish need to get over yourselves. Interviewing is about challenging the interviewee not respecting.
12:37 am · 10 Dec 2017

ShizzleYoDrizzle · 10/12/2017 22:31

And then he posted an Ivory Coast tricolour instead of an Irish one.

Silly arse.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/12/2017 22:32

Seems increasingly OK to disrespect Irish people
Reminds me of the Troubles: open season on the Irish, anything OK

This time, England is angry at having to keep to GFA terms, instead of taking control and ignoring it

BigChocFrenzy · 10/12/2017 22:40

News snippet

He used to be very powerful, but all power is transient

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/former-celebrity-publicist-max-clifford-74-dies-after-collapsing-in-prison-1.3322010

Former celebrity publicist Max Clifford, who was serving a jail sentence for sex offences, has died in hospital aged 74, the British ministry of justice has said.

HashiAsLarry · 10/12/2017 22:41

Loved this response to that tweet.

@SarahMulkerrins
Lovely. Just lovely.

From a 'you Irish' journalist - interviewing is about being informed in order to ask the right questions.
Respect is something afforded to every human being.
You can respect & challenge - but note first part, you need to be informed to challenge.

woman11017 · 10/12/2017 22:42

Yep. that 'you Irish' drew a lot of comment.
Ireland is like the scene in Blazing Saddles, with the armed black sheriff, whose line is "I am your worst nightmare".
A confident, affluent, high tech, independent ROI scares the whodiddlies out of them. Great!
But the Irish war is so last century. I don't think they understand that either.
They will. Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 10/12/2017 23:00

Joe McHugh, RoI govt chief whip, told RTE :

“We will as a government, a sovereign government in Ireland, be holding the United Kingdom to account, as will the European Union.
My question to anybody within the British government would be:
why would there be an agreement, a set of principled agreements, in order to get to phase two, if they weren’t going to be held up?
That just sounds bizarre to me.
This, as far as we’re concerned, is a binding agreement, an agreement in principle.”

RedToothBrush · 10/12/2017 23:10

<a class="break-all" href="https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/10/business/wto-united-states-trade.html?referer=t.co/Dqoa6v6JRN?amp=1#click=t.co/Dqoa6v6JRN" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/10/business/wto-united-states-trade.html?referer=t.co/Dqoa6v6JRN?amp=1#click=t.co/Dqoa6v6JRN
Once the W.T.O.’s Biggest Supporter, U.S. Is Its Biggest Skeptic

As officials from the 164 countries in the World Trade Organization gather in Buenos Aires this week for their first major meeting in two years, they will be watching to see whether the United States, once the group’s biggest advocate, is seeking to subvert it.

We can always fall back onto WTO terms...

....errrrr....

On to watch this week.

OP posts:
Cailleach1 · 10/12/2017 23:12

They want to press the buttons. They want the EU/Ireland to react to the jibes, and delays the next phase. The end game these w*nkers want is for the UK to walk away. They want to say it is all the EU's fault.

That is separate from their disdain for everyone ('cos they is just so fabulous themselves) and a hankering for Empire mark 2.0.

They won't get anything on trust. The trade deal has to be thrashed out and it will be ironclad. Penalties built in etc.

Ireland has nothing to lose. UK going to try to screw it over in any event. But a backstop for Ireland has been put on any future trade deal. Varadkar did secure the fact that any future deal has to take the island of Ireland and GFA into account. The UK cannot get a deal without this being taken into account and being satisfactory to the EU/Irl.

GFA will have to be in the Withdrawal agreement/Treaty and in future trade agreement (if and whenever). Gove/DUP must be spitting. They wanted to rip it up. This is why they are having this jibe campaign. They would be happy for disorderly withdrawal.

woman11017 · 10/12/2017 23:31

They want the EU/Ireland to react to the jibes It's not dissimilar to the full and frank exchanges we've enjoyed in this manor over the year, but just with 65+m people's lives depending on it.

We have a cabinet of GF.

And male tory english white goady fuckers at that.

I didn't think I could get more embarrassed but......

Holliewantstobehot · 10/12/2017 23:45

Have just caught up. Thanks for all the well informed posts. I made the mistake of signing up for a free trial on Ancestry and lost my weekend.

As an aside does the phrase 'deep and special' make anyone else feel icky or is it just me? It comes across as a threat rather than a promise. TM in a cheap red nylon nightie putting her arm around Juncker and murmuring 'make it deep and special, show me I mean more to you than Norway or Canada.'

mathanxiety · 11/12/2017 01:04

I thought ROI was mostly a services economy; that's why they are so primed to take over UK's role in the EU

The main employers and exporters are food and beverage/processing, pharmaceuticals, medical technology, engineering, IT/software/multinational, aircraft leasing and financial services. There is an important agriculture sector, and mining, esp zinc (7th in the world, 1st in Europe) and lead.

mathanxiety · 11/12/2017 01:08

I don't think they are just goading.

I think they want a different outcome from the one on Friday (i.e. hard Brexit) and they will not take no for an answer on this. They are prepared to destroy the GFA.

Unless there is a named arbitrator of disputes, neither Ireland nor the EU can hold anyone to account for walking away from this agreement.

Sylvia Hermon's amendment was not voted on. I think that should have given a good hint to all parties in Brussels and Dublin that the GFA is considered a nuisance.

Cailleach1 · 11/12/2017 07:00

Yes, the headbangers always wanted to just walk. And it is true they cannot be brought to book for riding a coach and four through the GFA. but they could always have done that. Now it will cost more in terms of reputation. And it will be a disorderly brexit if terms agreed are reneged on. They will never get a deal from the EU and will be blocked at WTO and may also be a defaulter. Life will be difficult.

The withdrawal (if orderly) has to satisfy the three elements agreed on. Also any future EU trade deal. The Council guidelines say that. These will be given to Barnier (who was probably involved in their drafting). Any deal will be QMV, but they will try to achieve unanimity beforehand. And are unlikely to go against a fellow member state's interests on the island of Ireland. And against the terms agreed.

Cailleach1 · 11/12/2017 07:15

14% exports by value with the UK. 88% exports to world are FDI. Fine grade chemicals, services and tech top exports. Half of the computer chips in the world made in Ireland.

According to Nicola Byrne, President of the Irish Exporters Association on channel 4 in the Convention centre with Matt Frei

.

thecatfromjapan · 11/12/2017 07:21

I think the push is towards CETA, with the goading there to apply 'pressure' (LOL), ie. playing to the home audience of nationalist nutters and people who think this whole Brexit deal is some large-scale version of a dispute about who is going to back their car up a single-track country lane.

CETA: Which will obliterate finance and services (80% of GDP)
CETA: Which will effectively give us a kind of TTIP and destroy the NHS

I wish David Cameron had fought the election against Miliband on the true terms of what he has done:

"Vote Conservative and destroy the NHS. Vote Conservative and watch finance and services decamp to mainland Europe. Vote Conservative if you hate business. Vote Conservative if you hate bankers and want them out of the UK."

I honestly never, ever, ever thought I'd see such an anti-financial services, anti-business government in my lifetime. And if you'd told me that it would be a Conservative government that would be ushering financial services to relocate from the UK, I'd have thought you were delusional.

But there you are.

thecatfromjapan · 11/12/2017 07:31

In fact, I think the 'goadiness' is partly to pretend there is any choice, at all.

The EU bloc has made it clear that EEA/EFTA is off the table. The UK just doesn't have the negotiating clout to push for anything else. For a start, May doesn't have the unanimity to present a unified front or the time/competence to negotiate strongly.

The last deal (to move forwards) has made the weakness of the UK's negotiations extremely apparent. The bluster just produces a lot of noise and squirrels to distract from that extraordinary weakness.

Any serious political analysis would now be concentrating on just how disastrous Brexit has been revealed to be for the UK. But the toxic political situation remains in place and so the squirrels are running around all over the place.

What an utter, utter mess.

I remember posters on MN, after the referendum result, admitting that they'd voted Leave because of TTIP's potential effect on the NHS. It was horrifying, really. Somehow, the fact that the EU was scuppering TTIP, and that voting Leave left the NHS more exposed to something like TTIP, had completely failed to impact on them.

And here we are. With a lot of bluster, trying to assure us that the choice is between terrifying 'No Deal' and economy-busting, NHS-busting CETA.

That's NOT a choice.

And, again, I don't think anyone believed that the UK government would absolutely fail to preserve the golden goose of finance and services.

But here we are.

And we are being tenderised to think of CETA as a 'saviour' deal - so much less apocalyptic than No Deal.

What a mess.

thecatfromjapan · 11/12/2017 07:38

Bob Kerslake, head of King's University College Hospital, joins the Social Mobility Committee in resigning over the government's complete inability to address the effects of their cuts. [[https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/nhs-boss-resigns-protest-government-underfunding-health-services/10/12/]]

Uk 2017: Already a bad place to be if you're not seriously wealthy. Sad

Swipe left for the next trending thread