Can anyone defend today's shambolic events?

[Bearbehind]

So it seems TM decided to ignore the fact the DUP has said all along they wouldn't support different rules for NI and tell the EU that that was how we are planning to resolve the border issue.

Then Arlene points out that they weren't bluffing and will not support it so TM has to back track.

It's a fucking joke.

TM and her government continue to think everyone else will just back down if they plough on with their arrogant plans.

When are they going to get real?

Seriously, is there any defence for this staggering display of incomptentence?

I see you "forgot" to quote this one
Read an article recently where the British gov't admitted there may have to be some militarisation along the border. How was it policed before? Roads will be blown up, bunkered and made impassable to normal people

Pp actually thinks that UK government will blow up the roads that 30,000 people cross every single day.

No one is suggesting that there is going to be barbed wire strung along the border, like the Berlin Wall, which is what you seem to be implying

That is exactly what they suggested, and I told them how ridiculous that is, which is why they were by definition wrong about the border being closed.

The NI / ROI border was policed during the Troubles by the British Army with a militarized presence in lookout towers at certain points along the border. I know because I grew up about 1 hour's drive from the border in the ROI.

The border was not sealed because that was impossible given that it was technically a common travel area - no-one needed a visa to travel between the two countries - but it was heavily policed. There was no way to seal the NI / ROI border because the common travel area provision (which means that we can technically travel between each other's countries with only a drivers license, no passport officially required) goes way back to the original separation of UK and Ireland in 1923 and then after Ireland declared itself a Republic in 1949, Irish citizens were treated as Commonwealth citizens without being subject to the same immigration controls.

Are UK citizens happy to go back to paying the cost of policing the border again? The burden will fall on the UK since it's the country that's leaving the EU. ROI will simply have the same status-quo that we had before Brexit, EU citizens coming and going. It's the UK that wants to leave and keep Johnny Foreigner out so it'll have to bear the cost of that.

I notice another manifestation of a recognisable posting style on this thread.
I too can remember the Irish border in the 70s (mother from Kilkenny, father's family from near Newry). Armed soldiers at checkpoints, aggressive customs officials, roads near my relative's farm rendered impassable. It happened before and could happen again unless the utmost care is taken.

I'm not spending time explaining planet earth is not flat.

Listened to an interview with Arlene. The British negotiating team told Arlene that the Irish gov't told the British gov't not to show them the wording. She says.

Jeez. If the British gov't are doing everything the Irish gov't says, I don't know why it is even an issue. Someone is telling cobblers.

DUP don't like the GFA, ECJ or ECHR. EU ain't propping them up either. Arlene says nobody wants a hard border on the island of Ireland. However, looked at video of Arlene saying there is a border there and there is no harm reminding people about that. Different jurisdictions. they like a sharp divide, imo.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-42236543

The DUP voted against GFA. This is payback time as far as those wankers are concerned.

I didn't 'forget' any posting. I just tried to find one which said that the border would be closed along its length which Cheerios accused posters of saying, when what has been said is exactly what borntobequiet is saying above.

Perhaps you are whistling the dark Cheerios - you don't want it to happen, so any one who says it could again is being told they can't read or don't know anything, or its implied that they misremember.

This has now all blown up in May's face, and quite honestly, given so little time she spent on the border issue, I am not at all surprised. A few visits to N Ireland, instead of rushing off to the US to be the first to greet Trump and then to Saudi Arabia to cut arms deals, might not have gone amiss.

"Nobody wants to see a hard border, but the reality is there is a border. It’s there because we are two different jurisdictions and people need to be reminded of that sometime."

Will try find the video later. We want a good old sectarian NI back. So we go from nobody wanting a hard border to 'well, they are different jurisdictions, so a logical extension of that is..'

Perhaps you are whistling the dark Cheerios - you don't want it to happen, so any one who says it could again is being told they can't read or don't know anything, or its implied that they misremember

Lookit, if you can't see the issue with posting dangerous offensive rubbish about the government blowing up roads and closing off a border that can't be closed, I can't explain it to you.

I don't know what your agenda could possibly be on arguing against me on something so obviously wrong, but it's nothing good.

But they did block roads and close border crossings. They did have checkpoints. You are now getting defensive about it, but whatever you think people said, you have put your own construction on their words.

I sincerely hope that this never comes back again. I suspect that May barely gave the border a moments thought. Her behaviour and public utterances have made it clear to me that she is no student of history. I suspect that like Thatcher, May would only begin to give it due attention if it began to affect the City of London.

Put it another way - who expects the current bunch of incompetents in Govt to produce a constructive solution, as both Major and Blair, with help from others, did in their time?

You're up to nothing good, Peregrina. What with your agenda and all. Agent Provocateur. And you're offensive and dangerous.

note I'm completely ignoring any allusions to my complicity in said subversion

Provocateuse, oops.

here a few photos of the border during the 'troubles'. some people clearly think this is 'fake news'

Yeah, I imagined all those pictures from my youth and photo shopped them just to piss people off.

I can remember going to NI and Ireland on business in 1988 - ie after both the UK and Ireland had joined the EEC but before the Single Market had been implemented.

Gave a presentation with a fancy projector in a hotel opposite Stormont (remember being very aware of all the security measures) and then drove down to Dublin - being horrified at the sight of the fortified police stations and then the border zones (I'd had Northern Irish friends at Uni but had never fully comprehended what they had to live with on a day-to-day basis ).

Trying to leave Dublin with my fancy projector, I nearly encountered major problems as I hadn't thought to "declare" the equipment when I left NI - and therefore had "smuggled" it in Fortunately, the Irish guy let me off - but for a horrible 5 minutes, I was contemplating having to drive back up to Belfast, "smuggling" the equipment back over the border and then flying back to Manchester from there.

Just one of the little inconveniences that could result from Brexit - even before the potentially disastrous consequences for the hard-won and still fragile peace process (one which the DUP didn't support )

Pretty, you are obviously imagining it all or having fake memories. It wasn't like that at all and making it work will be a piece of piss ...

I don't think anyone said every single border crossing would be closed - no one thinks the M1 will be blown up! Just that the sheer number of border crossings is impossible to police, so naturally many would have to be closed so an achievable number could be manned.

How old are you Liv?

The destruction of the peace agreement is not an undesirable outcome for Brexiteers. The destruction of the peace agreement is core to their philosophy.

The DUP voted against the peace agreement. The main proponents of Brexit were completely against the peace agreement. Nigel Farage described the peace agreement as 'utterly loathsome' while Michael Gove compared the peace agreement to the appeasement of the Nazis in the 1930s and the condoning of the desires of paedophiles.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/16/nigel-farage-called-northern-ireland-peace-process-utterly-loathsome
www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/michael-gove-a-fanatic-who-would-damage-peace-process-1.2710224

The main proponents of a hard Brexit would be delighted to see the destruction of the Good Friday peace agreement. The UK descending into a recession, the privatisation of the NHS in order to secure a trade deal with Trump, major job losses, huge hikes in food prices, etc. is considered by them as a price well-worth paying in order to have the peace agreement scrapped.

Just one of the little inconveniences that could result from Brexit - even before the potentially disastrous consequences for the hard-won and still fragile peace process (one which the DUP didn't support).

My worry is that May could blunder into a border closure, with checkpoints etc., given the crass stupidity she has shown to date. E.g. declares that she won't call an election, does so, and squanders a small but working majority. Tells a nurse, a profession which enjoys public sympathy, that there is no magic money tree, and then finds one has conveniently sprouted with ripe fruit when the DUP come to call. A more on the ball or more wily politician would have told themselves that Labour was also in disarray over Brexit, so she could have taken a gamble on them allowing her Brexit legislation through. As it is, the border was always going to be an issue, and her stupidity has made it much worse.

But they did block roads and close border crossings. They did have checkpoints. You are now getting defensive about it, but whatever you think people said, you have put your own construction on their words

Of course we did! What argument do you think we are having here? We all know what we had.

And what we never had was a closed border, because that was never possible and we always knew it. And what we did not have was the GOVERNMENT blowing up every road between Ireland and NI.

You know I am right, you know this. You have decided to argue with me but you've got my position completely wrong.

Again, a pp said that the UK could leave the EU without any agreement on the border and the government would close the border and blow up the roads.
You know this is not the case. What are you doing arguing?

Not sure what you are arguing Cheerios. I merely said there were roads blocked. I didn't say more.

I will reiterate that I think May could easily blunder into something by accident.

I have told you several times, I am arguing against the point a pp made, that the government would blow up all the roads and close the border

For the love of christ just tell me you also know that will not happen?

The UK forces certainly blew up roads and bridges in NI. Like these sappers preparing to crater a road.

I give up. Truly. Have it your way, on 29 march 2019 every road along the 500m border will explode. You happy now?