Can anyone defend today's shambolic events?

[Bearbehind]

So it seems TM decided to ignore the fact the DUP has said all along they wouldn't support different rules for NI and tell the EU that that was how we are planning to resolve the border issue.

Then Arlene points out that they weren't bluffing and will not support it so TM has to back track.

It's a fucking joke.

TM and her government continue to think everyone else will just back down if they plough on with their arrogant plans.

When are they going to get real?

Seriously, is there any defence for this staggering display of incomptentence?

Aside from anything else, it's practical. There's something like twice as many land border crossings between NI and ROI as there are on the entire eastern edge of the EU. Which is crazy when you think about it. They obviously can't all be manned, so of course some (most) will have to be blocked if Brexit results in a hard border.

David Davis has just suggested that the regulatory alignment plan will apply to the whole of UK...

... knew it was a set up ... presumably to make this statement more palatable to hard line Brexiteers... ?

Glad to see they are finally facing reality anyway!

Can anyone explain to me what is the difference between regulatory alignment and regulatory convergence?

Can anyone explain to me what is the difference between regulatory alignment and regulatory convergence?

I suspect it is a purely semantic and political difference, deployed in the service of creating a Fudgit.

I suspected as much Rhiannon!

Given that we are indisputably heading for a labour government, most likely led, at least initially, by JC, all this talk of free trade agreements post-brexit is futile and even more unrealistic than it sold have been with Tory brexiteer a in charge. They are in their way to a political wilderness entirely of their own making.

The new Labour government will not prioritise entering into any FTAs, let alone FTAs such as CITA that contain investor protection mechanisms.

Sorry - lots of typos - on the train home!

Since they did it in recent history - well within the lifetimes of many of the younger posters on this thread, I don't know why anyone expresses credulity

It's those of us who lived through it who can't believe you think this is what could happen!
It is not the 1970's. We are not the same people, it is not the same world. You're misrepresenting how it was then anyway! The border was never closed in the way you seem to think.

If something like this had happened 10 to 20 years ago, I'd have been wondering what Mandelson had got up his sleeve (ie scheming).
Unfortunately, with this current crop of Ministers, there is nobody capable of such thoughts or any

I concur with you about one thing. It is not the 1970's. It is soon going to be 2018.

and its a totally different world.

The border was never closed in the way you seem to think.

So those pictures I have seen of the road barred at e.g. Belcoo, are just figments of my imagination?

If we are not the same people why is abortion still illegal in NI?

Because it’s a devolved Issue.

So those pictures I have seen of the road barred at e.g. Belcoo, are just figments of my imagination?

No. Can you not tell the difference between checkpoints on individual roads and a closed 500km long border?

'and its a totally different world.'

Is it? Famous last words, methinks.

Yes of course it is. How could anyone possibly think that NI/Ireland of 2018 is not totally different to the 1970's?

It wasn't a devolved issue in 1967.

I don't think anyone for one moment suggested that it was a Berlin Wall type situation. But checkpoints on roads, with minor ones blocked, is not what is there now. Who on earth wants to go back to the past?

As for this, that or the other could never happen. I never expected the USSR to collapse, or Yugoslavia to break up in violence, nor see Germany re-united. All happened in my adult life time. It's possible that those more connected to those places feared those events, but people in NI fear the situation now. Especially since May appears to have given scant regard to NI.

The poster who I answered said that if the UK left the EU with no deal then the border would be "closed" immediately and people and goods would not be allowed to cross it.

The USSR collapsing was not a shock to anyone who knew anything about what was happening there, neither was the Berlin Wall falling. Yes, things could go very wrong in NI, but pp alleged that the British gove would close the border and blow up the roads, whcih is clearly ridiculous.

No it wasn’t devolved in 1967. It was one of the many issues that was never dealt with under Stormont and which dropped to the bottom of the pile during the Troubles. It’s totally shit I agree, but there really isn’t much appetite for abortion reform in NI.

There is plenty on the ground. I was at the last march for choice in Belfast, and over 70% support reform in an amnesty survey
.

I know, have been involved in abortion right campaign too. But the support that exists is overwhelmingly for very modest reform at most. It looks like it’s changing though, as it has in the ROI.

The poster who I answered said that if the UK left the EU with no deal then the border would be "closed" immediately and people and goods would not be allowed to cross it.

If it is me you are referring to, I did not say that. People and goods are allowed to cross borders. It happens all over the world. But there would be checks and restrictions. The embellishment and hyperbole is all your own.

You did, it is there in black and white above. You've probably realised how silly you were to say such things, but its sillier to deny you said it. We can all read.

you don't seem to understand how borders work or the geography of the Island of Ireland.

I checked back to see what Cailleach and others had said:

There were much fewer road crossings historically. Many roads had been rendered unusable by blowing up or blocking off. Same amount of Km, but far fewer official crossings.

Your response to me Cheerios was:
No. Can you not tell the difference between checkpoints on individual roads and a closed 500km long border?

Far fewer crossings means exactly what it says. No one is suggesting that there is going to be barbed wire strung along the border, like the Berlin Wall, which is what you seem to be implying.