Westministenders: The Art of the Deal

[RedToothBrush]

Well Trump seems to have put his foot in it.

Not that this should come as a surprise. For all the talk of closer ties with the US that was never going to happen. All that was need was for Trump to over step once too many.

By chance (?) Barnier also raised questions about our commitment to working with the EU on security.

Its almost as if we are being asked to choose whom we look to for security.

Meanwhile it sounds like the divorce bill is sorted - though this may not be as settled as that, if it comes with conditions. The deal might also be backtracked on, seeing as that appears to be the done thing presently.

Talks on Ireland are stalemated with Ireland threating to veto. No sign of a breakthrough here yet.

Talks on EU citz rights are reportedly going backwards (again) rather than going forward.

All of this is theatre for a British audience though, with the UK agreeing to everything. Because they gave again their cards when a50 was triggered.

The crunch is coming on whether we move to stage two before Christmas. We have no time to lose.

Beth Rigby
@BethRigby
BREAK; Senior govt source tells me it still “too close to call” re Ireland border but draft wording in and govt “quietly confident it will be resolved” by close of play. Told #DUP on board

Caveat: I'm nearly always wrong on these things (for anyone who hasn't noticed that).

lala I wish you were right, but I an dure the DUP will be placated.

NI is not like Somerset, whatever Rees-Mogg states, as I am sure he is well aware, but probably thinks we are too dim to challenge him. I as a British Citizen born in England, and sometime resident in Wales, but mostly England only have the option of British Nationality. I couldn't take out Irish Citizenship if I wanted to - the last Irish blood in the family left Ireland in about 1850*. People born in NI can be British, Irish or Both, as of right by virtue of the GFA. Although as we have seen on previous threads, quite a lot of English organisations are unaware of this.

• Thinking about the date, it's significant, but not something I had really thought of until now.

The EU had the advantage not just of an experienced team, but also because
they took the time to decide their strategy and aims AND to get all 27 countries to agree

The UK govt, ever since 24 June 2016, has been arguing with itself

Fatal error: They did not use the time before invoking A50 to scope out all the possibilities and agree an official govt policy
Because the govt is too weak, too ignorant and too irresponsible, putting party first always

In any negotiation - for salary, a house, a car - if you don't know what you want, then you are most unlikely to achieve it

Let's remind ourselves of this statement some days ago by

European Council President Donald Tusk:

"… we have agreed ..... that before proposing guidelines on transition and future relations to the leaders,
I will consult the Taoiseach if the UK's offer is sufficient for the Irish government.

Let me say very clearly: if the UK's offer is unacceptable for Ireland, it will also be unacceptable for the EU.

I realise that for some British politicians this may be hard to understand.
But such is the logic behind the fact that Ireland is an EU member while the UK is leaving.

This is why the key to the UK's future lies - in some ways - in Dublin, at least as long as Brexit negotiations continue."

< Depending on the RoI's good opinion must be infuriating to the DUP and the Tory right >

Oh good

Sam Coates Times
@SamCoatesTimes
NEW: At 4pm Gavin Barwell and Steve Baker are going to address Tory MPs in a committee room about the EU negotiation. (I suspect the Speaker would prefer it was a statement to Parliament but hey)

A part of me feels angry and sad about the way things are playing out, because potentially so much damage will be caused to so many people. Another part of me is enjoying seeing the Tories getting themselves in the sh*t.

Seb Dance MEP
@SebDance
We await the details on Phase I, but if N Ireland can get SM/ CU - which is what every sector says it wants - then this shows we’re winning the argument and that all parts of the UK can get it too.

Hugo Rifkind
@hugorifkind
Hope somebody is keeping a list of all the bits of the UK that want. "regulatory alignment" with the EU. So far I've got Northern Ireland, Scotland, London, farms, banks, universities, healthcare, Grimsby and Cornwall.

Don't forget a significant number of University towns voted Remain, as did London. So we should be allowed to keep the bits we want.

Grimsby, Cornwall? No, they voted Leave, so they should be coming up with ideas of how to make Leave work for them.

Tunbridge Wells was the only town in Kent that voted remain.

BBC pundit speculating that NI concession could mean no regulatory divergence for rest of UK too - and we'd exclude the possibility of Singapore-style economy. That's the logic but I suppose the obvious caveat is that logic has played no part in the UK's approach so far.

I mean, why stop there? 100% of the eligible voters in my house voted remain so I think we shouldn't have any regulatory divergence either.

Britain has agreed a deal on Northern Ireland border, EU tells its MEPs
Joint text would effectively keep UK and EU in the single market

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ireland-border-deal-uk-latest-updates-brexit-eu-withdrawal-dup-dublin-republic-a8090766.html

The northerners, motherofdragon? Let it not be forgotten that the northern cities mostly voted Remain: Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool, Newcastle, York. Big up to Tunbridge Wells too, I didn't know they were Remain- hilarious!

Also, is anyone looking at extreme Unionist/Loyalist Twitter right now? See what the TUV types have to say, Jamie Bryson, people like that. They don't like this. They think that no regulatory divergence between NI and ROI means there'd be regulatory divergence between NI and the rest of the UK.

twitter.com/JamieBrysonCPNI/status/937650248549326848

logic has played no part in the UK's approach so far. [tears her own hair out]

They think that no regulatory divergence between NI and ROI means there'd be regulatory divergence between NI and the rest of the UK.

Or Britain also keeps regulatory convergence i.e. something like Norway, follow the rules, but have no say in formulating them. Well done Leavers!

That Jamie Nryson has really no understanding of the EU. When Hungary, Romania and Slovakia all finally joined the EU, there was much jubilation in liberal circles that the 1st World War borders and resulting tensions lost all their relevance.

We've had a Referendum in our house. We've decided 100% to stay in the single market (and preferably in the EU). If northern Ireland can then our house can too. It will make the work I do in EIRe much easier.

Bryson is a tit, but don't let that fool you into thinking there aren't plenty like him.

Trimble was just on WatO and said (more than once): "This is a sad day for Northern Ireland."

Kris Griffiths‏*@KrisGriffiths*
After observing UK's #Brexit shambles, populist parties on the continent like Greece's Syriza and Germany's AdF no longer see leaving the EU as a good idea funnily enough. Even Marine Le Pen has sacked it