Westministenders: Money, money, money

[RedToothBrush]

The big developments are that the government have signalled they are prepared to pay more and to involve the ECJ when it comes to citizens rights on condition that we move to talk of trade. But no apparent progress on NI. Which is significant with Ireland threatening to veto.

The EU has not changed its stance at all. Since Day 1.

There is always a worrying omission and lack of commitment to retain the Charter of Fundamental Rights. The bonfire begins.

Talk is of Green still going in a reshuffle, possibly with Gove replacing him as Deputy PM.

Coalition talks in Germany have broken down, and the British have got excited about it, whilst the German response have largely been a slight shrug.

Its been a much quieter week, despite the budget. Thank goodness. There are lots of outstanding issues that are lurking in the background like the Green one though.

The main message coming from the budget, has not been any new policy, but the dreadful economic forecast for the next few years.

Well, our office has desks for 8 people, and it's a big space. It's also very, very rare that 8 people are actually present - it's usually 3-4. It's a very nice place to work.

The 2 Norths are totally different:

Richard North is a conservative nationalist
He is one of the most knowledgeable Uk experts on EU & world trade, regulations, standards, how the EU works, its key personnel etc
Hence, his blog is one of my daily reads, despite his views being so different to mine and despite him being a pessimistic old grump.

Peter North is imo a far-right nationalist, who frequently spouts hate speech against racial & religious minorities, the vulnerable and especially hates Remainers, the "Liberal elite" - anyone to his left - and those working for the EU.
I've read a couple of his blogs, but gave up because his hatred and offensive language drowns out any useful info, that is better expressed by his dad anyway

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/11/25/johnson-johnson-pulls-plan-first-uk-research-centre/

Johnson & Johnson pulls plan for first UK research centre.

red The genuine left authoritarians keep attacking the Tories, just not on Brexit
They want fully socialist economic and tax policies

Lexiters who continually defend Tory economic policies are no longer on the left economically, if they ever were.
They seem to be very nationalist, anti-immigrant - which is characteristic of all hard right and some hard left parties throughout the world

However, it is economics which is the litmus test, to distinguish the hard right from the hard left

I agree authoritarianism, often with a xenophobic form of nationalism, appeals to the same kind of person.
That's why those on the hard right and hard left can switch from one to the other

e.g. Le Pen's Front National was boosted after the French Communist party died off and many of its former voters and supporters switched.
e.g. In the former East Germany, still shaped by decades of communist dictatorship, many voters have moved to both die Linke and the AfD

There was a very good documentary a while back on the BBC celebrating black British history. They found evidence of black roman soldiers at Hadrian's wall.

I also read a novel about slavery by Phillipa Gregory who added a note saying that none of us could know whether we had African ancestry as the slaves who stayed in Britain and their descendants married into the white population. She said it gave her great joy to think a member of the BNP could have African heritage without knowing it.

I love that we are a true mongrel nation. Its fascinating to think that my genes could be such a mix. Its what makes our history so interesting.

I read a new word today which I thought a good one: brextremist.

Johnson & Johnson pulls plan for first UK research centre.
Strange, our Leaver friends who are keeping a tally of new jobs opening up in shops, warehouses etc. are strangely quiet today. This is after trying to play down the EMA move.

Recommended long reads:

by Ivan Rogers: The inside story of how David Cameron drove Britain to Brexit
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/the-inside-story-of-how-david-cameron-drove-britain-to-brexit

Hungary: 21st century fascism is very different to 20th century
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/other/tyrannys-new-trick-in-hungary-a-government-wages-war-on-liberalism

red's front page - the full Mail On Sunday story:
Putin's link to Boris and Gove's Brexit 'coup' revealed: Tycoon who netted millions from Russian gas deal funds

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5117547/Putins-link-Boris-Goves-Brexit-coup-revealed.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/25/phil-hogan-ireland-eu-commissioner-brexit-chaos
…
Hogan [EU’s agriculture commissioner] warned Britain may struggle to keep the 59 trade deals it now has through the EU on the same terms.
“The UK would be running to stand still,” he said.
“When it comes to trying to negotiate new FTAs with the rest of the world, Britain will be pushed around the way the EU – with currently more than eight times the UK population – will never be.

+The US have already started their attack on standards, so chlorine chicken and hormone beef for the British Sunday roast post-Brexit?

• India will insist on visas that the UK can never give.
• Australia and New Zealand are a long way away and of very limited economic interest.
• And any deal with China will be a one-way street in terms of costs and benefits for the UK.” … the OBR made clear that these downgrades were premised on a benign outcome to Brexit negotiations.

Both the Treasury, privately, and leading independent economists recognise that
actual growth will be considerably lower than the gloomy budget projections if the UK does not achieve most of its negotiating goals, or if there is a “no deal” result.

Kate Hoey‏ @KateHoeyMP
Leo Varadkar needs to stop the hypocrisy and remember who Ireland’s true friends are via @BrexitCentral

"With friends like that, who needs enemies".

Seriously though, I think Ireland knows who her friends are.

James Comey @ comey
“Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost.” - Thomas Jefferson, Jan. 28, 1786

I think I want this on my gravestone.

Iain Dale @ iaindale
I'm so glad @DUPleader is committed to Northern Ireland having the same rules post Brexit as the rest of the UK. I look forward to her support for introducing equal marriage and abortion rights into Northern Ireland law forthwith.

ROFL

From a conservative too!

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/25/momentum-loyalty-test-would-be-mps-labour-corbyn
Momentum loyalty test planned for would-be Labour MPs
Contenders asked to sign contract to back Corbyn’s objectives and party manifesto to win group’s support

Nothing to see here. Please move along quietly and do as you are told without thought.

Interesting to note that there is no actual link mentioned between Legatum and any alleged Russian objectives, despite the headline. It's possible the DM realises most of its readers go no further than the headline and maybe a few lines of the first paragraph.

"Ireland's true friends" ?

I realise many English people are ignorant about 800 years of invasion, colonisation, mass murder, torture, ethnic cleansing, religious persecution, famine ....
but Kate Hoey comes from NI, so no excuse

Surely most Unionists aren't so callous - I suppose her Unionism is the DUP version.

Kate Hoey comes from a loyalist NI heritage, so all of the above is water off a duck's back to her. The loyalist version of history is completely different from the nationalist one. Events such as the rebellion of 1641 and the Siege of Derry feature prominently. There is a strong 'circle the wagons against the natives' theme.

Anna Soubry on Brexit: ‘History will condemn those who haven’t tried to stop all this nonsense’

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/26/anna-soubry-interview-brexit-history-will-condemn-this-period

Death threats ....
"I’ve had abuse for a very long time.
The difference with this is that there is a direct causal link between the way the Telegraph described us and the threats, abuse and Facebook postings that followed.”
…
What concerns her now is the deafening silence emanating from her own side on this matter.
“The party has got to call this out. But yet again, I feel it will be weak. They will not take the sort of robust action they need to.

My whip said, ‘Sorry to hear about this’,
but there’ll be no further interest because at least one of them [those attacking her] is a Conservative himself:
Tom Borwick [leading light of Vote Leave, the son of the former Conservative MP for Kensington Victoria Borwick, and one of those encouraging people on social media to tell their MPs face to face what they make of their so-called attempts to thwart Brexit].
He hasn’t issued death threats, but by calling us anti-democratic, he is stoking and fuelling the fire.

There’s something about these hard Brexiters: it’s fascinating, actually.
Look at the language some of them use.
It’s not enough that you accept the result [of the referendum]; it’s not enough that you voted to trigger article 50. Now it’s, ‘Yeah, yeah, but do you believe?’

I didn't learn any Irish history in school.
However, despite it being long before Tinternet, even as a teen I absorbed some basic facts - from the adults around me, from library books, from TV documentaries

I'm baffled how many in England are so ignorant about Ireland when it's so much easier now to educate oneself
(although mainstream TV doesn't seem to do history docs any more, just drama and I've recently learned on MN that many seem to lack basic general knowledge, even when educated in their own field)

Also how they can regard the RoI as treacherous
The RoI has been remarkably forgiving in recent years, imo

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/3096781-What-do-people-think-is-most-likely-to-happen-with-the-Irish-UK-border?msgid=73628789#73628789
Interesting thread.

BigChoc, prejudice is always irrational.

It’s not enough that you accept the result [of the referendum]; it’s not enough that you voted to trigger article 50. Now it’s, ‘Yeah, yeah, but do you believe?’

It's like the Spanish Inquisition in Monty Python - these people are just as ludicrous but unfortunately not in the least funny.

At some point someone is going to have to put some serious work into narrowing divisions in British society. There is a Brexit that would satisfy most leavers and be acceptable to most remainers, but that it not the one we are heading for.

Sorry, quote fail. First para of abcve was quoting math.

^Corbyn pledges to make a stand on ‘degrading’ abuse culture
Labour leader will acknowledge party’s past failings and call for ‘moment of real change^

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/05/corbyn-pledges-make-stand-on-degrading-abuse-culture

Saw this headline and thought it referred to the new 'loyalty test'

DUP's hold on NI (and by the 'bung for votes', us) make it/us occupied territory, in old money, I'd have thought.

The DUP is UKIP (with 'back up' ifyswim)
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dup-conference-ukip-arlene-foster-theresa-may-brexit-nigel-dodds-a8076256.html
Not a very well written article, but the point still stands.