Petition: Parliament's vote on the Brexit deal must include an option to remain in the EU

[Imbroglio]

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/205169

Tin hat on.

If we opted to remain now they would screw us into the ground.

We should put our energy into leaving as well as we can rather than undermining and bickering

Ivor,

It sounds like a war. It isn't, it is a negotiation. Leaving the EU is allowed and is now a reality.

Should be all sound and etc. but the Uk seems to be seriously unprepared for the reality of it all so far anyway.

And twelve months hence I doubt much will be resolved on either side, so crashing out looks like a possibility.

But I am confident that there will be at least a five year transition. Time enough for another election and maybe a change of tack when the reality bites?

But we do not know what that reality is do we? Signs are not good in the prepper corner though!

@IvorHughJarrs

Why do you think that?

We can stop now. We haven't left. Terms remain the same.

Square the circle for me. Tell how the border will work.

If we knew the solution we'd be getting big bucks from the government right now. The Remainer position is to demand Leavers provide solutions to every problem and write papers regarding solutions. That's a tired tactic and it's been blown out of the water. Not one of us can predict the future. We are not negotiators but the EU is making the problem much worse than it is and delighting in magnifying problems. Why is a special arrangement regarding a geographical quirk not acceptable if it's perfectly workable for the EU and UK and Eire? Many who know more about these sorts of territorial/border/customs negotiations than I do have stated it needn't be the problem the EU wants it to be. I shall have to scour the internet for sources.

@Flossie4

You created the problems. So it is our right to ask you for solutions.

Tell me how the special arrangements will work.

NI outside the SM and CU. The Republic is in.

Note it is not the EU driving this. It is Ireland. Ireland has a veto. Like we once did.

Flossie,

With respect, there would be no debate if UK stayed.

The NI/ROI border is an issue that is far outside the EU, it is an International Agreement (GFA) that the EU did not have input into. But it will be very problematic, and probably the rock on which Brexit may fall.

Can you give us a solution to the border issue NI/ROI at all? Have you thought it through?

As is typical, after some bluster from a Leaver I ask a question which requires knowledge and detail.

And that above is typical sneering Remainer arrogance which has created the divides we see today. I'd be extremely surprised if you could explain in detail the workings of the EU, yet you demand Leavers do. You'd be a rare being because the majority of us know it is multi-layered, and its workings, its committees, councils, courts, its structure, laws, Ts&Cs and personnel, MEPs and their roles within the organisation are a mystery to most. We could all find out if we had a spare month or two to spare and research it 24/7. Being glib and sneering because disentangling ourselves from the EU behemoth is going to take time is helpful to no one.

@Flossie4

Uh. I'm not claiming to know the answer.

And you have had almost two years to figure this stuff out.

So ... what's the answer?

How will the NI border work?

Flossie,

I don't think a rant from yourself will sort this. We need facts!

Tell us the advantages of staying v leaving. I'd love to hear your voice in this.

@boxthefox

Happy to change the subject

Yes let's hear one advantage of leaving over staying. That would be good. I still can't name one. Almost two years after the vote.

Olivia.

It was voted upon. Yep.

What I cannot understand is the reluctance of some to set out the advantages of leaving for the UK.

Silence.

I await the explanations that do not involve blaming EU fekkers trying to undermine the UK. That is a very worn tactic.

I am open to debate. But seems like I am in the minority. Still have an open mind though if I can be persuaded!

Is Flossie4 a real poster, or just a troll with the stock Leaver soundbites?
Time for those was 18 months ago. Now, that the Leaving date is coming every closer, we want to see some real answers to sensible questions? As for the stock - we voted Leave - not one person voted for the Leave which May is pursuing!

Not sure @Peregrina

All of them sound the same. Same kind of rants.

Not a lot of logic or fact behind it.

At this point @boxthefox I've given up hope there's any silver lining. Brexshit is just shit. There's nothing good about it.

I would expect to see plans like -

These improvements are what we want to see with the NHS.
This law is one which we don't need (caveat - needs to be one which the UK didn't vote for, and certainly not one the UK sponsored.)
This is how we expect a Westminster Govt to bring help to the regions. (Don't hold your breath with the Tories.)
What we get is................

Nothing.

Don't expect anything. You can't make something out of nothing

You can't spend a shortfall in revenues

There will have to be a five year moratorium/transition.

Whatever your views are, there is absolutely no way that the UK will be in a position to turn back migrants from EU or deal with tariffs on goods imported from EU either.

Think about it. And think about why this is necessary too.

There will be a huge cost to the taxpayer also. Has anyone thought about that?

Of course @boxthefox

Many have thought about it. Just not those in government

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brexit-should-be-delayed-to-give-uk-more-time-for-a-better-deal-brexit-select-committee-set-to-urge-jacob-rees-mogg-furious-article-50-extension-request_uk_5aabeb41e4b0337adf836a5d?ios

It's time for Mogg to either put up or shut up.

Mogg and his likes will never be affected by Brexit. Easy to say when you are immune.

You need to MAKE IT WORK.

And it's no use blaming us Remainers - we don't fully understand the Leave mindset(s), so will only be able to deliver a Remainers version of leaving the EU. Which would probably be an EEA arrangement. Second best but good enough and clears Farage and Co out of the European Parliament.

@DrivenToDespair

Well said.

So what's the plan?

To be fair - I don't think it's Mr & Mrs Average of Sunderland or Cornwall who need to make it work, who have been betrayed, even if they don't fully realise it.

It's Gove, Johnson, Fox, Rees-Mogg, Redwood - plus the rest of the ERG group. They are the ones who need to come up with the realistic plans, not the silly nonsense we have had so far. Oh a special mention too to Gisela Stuart who I think was chair of the Leave group, and took the opportunity to run from politics, instead of staying for the long haul.

I don't agree.

Democracy means one needs to assume responsibility for choices. Which means one needs to understand them.