A question to all those that voted leave

[NameChanger22]

A question to all those that voted leave

I’m not expecting Brexit to go well. It may go well and all the remainers can then feel very silly about their apocalyptic predictions, which I hope is the case. The fact remains that nobody really knows how things are going to pan out. I’m open to being happily surprised by the wonderful future that the brexiters envisage.

What I want to know is, IF things aren’t brilliant after Brexit and your lives are the same or even worse than they were before, you have less money than you did before and life is even harder, more complicated and you have less human rights than ever, then who will you blame?

You won’t be able to blame the EU as they will no longer be your evil overlords. You won’t be able to blame immigrants because many of them will either have left of their own accord or been forced to leave. You won’t be able to blame remainers, because they never wanted any of this in the first place, and warned against it.

Will you blame yourselves? Will you blame the government of the day or a previous government? Will you blame another minority group?

I’m just wondering so I can prepare myself fully for the next attempt to scapegoat.

You I'll be laying full responsibility at your door probably best you go have a little lie down and get ready

I'm in London and it's hard to believe it's going to be anything other than a disaster but I read on a thread how it's really shit in some parts of the UK now and they honestly believe a change like this is what's needed.

So maybe not everyone will have the same definition of not going well.

If things are really shit now, how is a change like this going to help?

No brexiters willing to give me some insight then? Has Mumsnet scared everyone away?

I think the govt is managing this situation spectacularly badly. I want to leave the EU but I also want a competent govt to manage this process - at the moment they don't seem capable of organising a piss up in a brewery. T M has fucked up by calling a snap election and now seems paralysed. So yes, I will blame them for mismanagement. I cannot get my head around how Boris Johnson hasn't been sacked - he is making the govt look like a bunch of inept twats. This is not helping our negotiations.
I also think there is an element of self fulfilling prophecy, in that if you talk somethibg down enough, then you kind of make it happen. If everyone constantly talks about recession, for ex, it creates fear and people stop spending, causing the very thing they feared. Although it is hard to be confident given the govts current performance.

If everyone constantly talks about recession, for ex, it creates fear and people stop spending, causing the very thing they feared.

Leaving the most prosperous trading block in the world with no plan B is a sure fire way to damage an economy. Markets need certainty, Brexit is anything but. The drop in the £ after the referendum meant imports went up in price hence people spending less. You cannot talk an economy up or down. I know Brexit feels like a religion but willing it to work won't do.

I think the govt is managing this situation spectacularly badly.

Our government had been managing most situations very badly for many years now; which was one of the main reasons I wanted to stay in the EU as they offer a tiny bit of protection. I don't know why anyone put their faith in our government, as it was obvious from the start they wouldn't manage it well. The writing was always on the wall.

I agree with what GhostFrank said.

The question is, if public opinion moves from blaming the EU to blaming the government, who will the government and right wing media shift the blame to next?

It won't be rich people.

Why cant you view it from another angle such as 'life is crap now as part of the EU and I mean massively crap for a large proportion of the population. So how does staying in the EU improve those lives?'

The answer is 'it doesn't' and 'it hasn't made life better its made it worse'.

Millions of people really have had their lives eroded away over the years. It wasn't working for them so they saw it as a case of 'do we keep struggling on as we are having persisted for decades within the EU living like this or do we try something else'.

Many many people are desperate for change and 'remainers' constantly having a go at these people, who are often already at the bottom in life, for trying to change this diabolical situation they live in really just don't get how bad it is currently while part of the EU. Mainly because for them they get some benefit from being part of the EU. If you get nothing visible you can experience/feel/see in your own life from the EU you have nothing to lose by looking to do things differently.

And quoting data and statistics wont help. They need to see real change things in their immediate community, things that help their own families. They haven't experienced anything like this so think its better to try something else. Obviously people often compare with their own experiences and they, whether rightly or wrongly, remember good things about the UK before it joined the EU.

Remainers need to stop quoting graphs, data, statistics etc because they have no meaning when your community has been eroded beyond recognition while being part of the EU yet was flourishing before the UK joined. And people need to stop looking for someone to blame just because things aren't going the way they want them to.

I don't think blame comes into it. It is not helpful.

This situation has been created by political games being played at Westminster.

I'll blame Momentum of course. You?

Blame has played a massive part in all of this so far, mostly the blaming of immigrants. I think there will be someone new to blame post brexit. Of course it isn't helpful, but it's one way of manipulating people.

I think the poor will be unfairly blamed for brexit.

All the poorest people I know voted to remain. It was the richer managers and business owners that voted to leave in my social circle. My poor friends all voted remain because they didn't want to make life harder for themselves. Life can always be worse, some people didn't realise that.

The masses will probably blame whoever the right wing media tells them to blame.

community has been eroded beyond recognition while being part of the EU yet was flourishing before the UK joined.

No it wasn't. Britain was the sick man of europe. The UK's problems are home grown. Privitisation, council house sell offs, cutting public services, zero hour contracts, unaffordable housing, tuition fees - all home grown, sod all to do with the EU.

The EU has been investing in deprived areas. Before someone comes along and shouts "well its our money!" you'd be deluded to think a Tory government that has imposed 7 years of austerity is going to invest in poorer areas.

OP you sound very bitter.....I voted leave and will not be blaming anyone if things are worse than l expected after the event.

I made my decision, and am now hoping feverishly that it goes as well as possible,
l knew it would be extremely difficult to leave, very complicated and turbulent with inevitable problems and impossible to be sure of the exact outcome, but l still see many more advantages to not being within the EU, and frankly no advantages to staying.

If this is a leave bashing thread then that has been done to death

All the poorest people I know voted to remain. It was the richer managers and business owners that voted to leave in my social circle

This is the exact opposite to my personal experience. The poorer people by far outnumber the rich in respect of voting leave in my community.

The question is, if public opinion moves from blaming the EU to blaming the government, who will the government and right wing media shift the blame to next?

Feckless Brits have to learn to knuckle down

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/oped/feckless-brits-have-to-learn-toknuckledown-6l2k9lbfm

GhostofFrankGrimes don't half copy my words .

In my community the older members remember they all had jobs, their family all had jobs. We join the EU and they all lose their jobs and now the town/immediate area is one of the poorest and most deprived in the UK. Don't say they're wrong. This is exactly why they voted leave because people like you tell them theyre wrong when you don't live or experience their life. To them its black and white. They had jobs and a thriving community. The EU membership made their jobs disappear and community die. That's how it affected them and just because you 'know better' doesn't mean what they experienced isn't true.

It isn't a leave bashing thread. As a poor person, I'm worried about being blamed for brexit. I was wondering if anyone else felt that this was going to happen?

I'm not bitter .. yet, I'm still hoping that brexit will be a huge success and I can go around telling people - sorry I got it wrong. I will very happily eat humble pie.

This is exactly why they voted leave because people like you tell them theyre wrong when you don't live or experience their life.

You know nothing about me. I grew up in a northern town that was ravaged by Thatcherite (British!) policies. The closure of mines, end of heavy industry with nothing to replace it did for alot of leave voting areas.

That's how it affected them and just because you 'know better

Well that's your feeling isn't it? And that's the problem with Brexit. Its a hunch, a feeling, by the admission of your earlier post dismissing evidence, data. Who needs evidence, who needs experts? Its a hunch, a feeling, just believe. Its also nonsense that rewrites the social, economic and political history of the UK over the last 30 years.

And that's the problem with Brexit. Its a hunch, a feeling and so is the future that the remainers wanted everyone to believe, a hunch, a feeling.

But at what point do we say 'its not working for us so lets look at another way' in another 100 years maybe? 50 years? 30 years? how much longer should people have to wait to see these wondrous benefits of staying in the EU (which is falling apart anyway). They only have a limited life span and they want to see that change hence them voting leave. It wasn't improving their lives enough or at all in many cases.

But at what point do we say 'its not working for us so lets look at another way' in another 100 years maybe? 50 years? 30 years?

Its not about time, its about aiming your outrage at the people who caused it. Many people used Brexit as an opportunity to "stick it" to Cameron. It was a 50/50 bet and worth a punt. Better odds than a general election were you vote can end up wasted and nothing changes. Sadly "sticking it" to Cameron will prove a pyrrhic victory.

So how does staying in the EU improve those lives?'

The answer is 'it doesn't' and 'it hasn't made life better its made it worse'.

I'd really like to hear about examples of how life has been made worse by the EU?

Well, lots of areas have been flooded with cheap labour from the EU, that local work forces can't compete with. So we end up paying unemployment benefits for people here and the money earned by short term EU migrants leaves the country so isn't benefitting our economy.
My sister works for a business that houses foreign workers in house shares that the business owns. The workers come for a while, earn and save because they are paying no council tax, minimal rent etc, then leave and take their money home. British workers have been told for years that they are lazy for not taking these jobs, but how can they when they aren't getting paid enough to live?
Seems to me the EU worked well for businesses benefitting from cheap labour.

Well I wouldn't be surprised (the government is appearing to do a pretty shit job). Tbf I always expected it to get worse regardless of whether we stayed or left short term. But I do expect that things will continue getting worse, most likely for longer than they will in the UK, in the EU unless they have a real rethink of their whole system. Unless labour wins the next election is which case I may as well just leave. Pun intended.

Iwannasee

unemployment is low. Without EU workers alot of industries face worker shortages.

Food industry warns of Brexit workforce shortage

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41025082