A question to all those that voted leave

[NameChanger22]

A question to all those that voted leave

I’m not expecting Brexit to go well. It may go well and all the remainers can then feel very silly about their apocalyptic predictions, which I hope is the case. The fact remains that nobody really knows how things are going to pan out. I’m open to being happily surprised by the wonderful future that the brexiters envisage.

What I want to know is, IF things aren’t brilliant after Brexit and your lives are the same or even worse than they were before, you have less money than you did before and life is even harder, more complicated and you have less human rights than ever, then who will you blame?

You won’t be able to blame the EU as they will no longer be your evil overlords. You won’t be able to blame immigrants because many of them will either have left of their own accord or been forced to leave. You won’t be able to blame remainers, because they never wanted any of this in the first place, and warned against it.

Will you blame yourselves? Will you blame the government of the day or a previous government? Will you blame another minority group?

I’m just wondering so I can prepare myself fully for the next attempt to scapegoat.

Pro eu British governments have been elected for the last 40 yrs so people certainly knew what they were getting there. Can’t complain about the eu evolving over that time, people voted for it!

I won’t blame anyone. There will be many many impacts to Brexit, some will be good some will be not so good I’m sure. However what you’re not bringing into the equation here is what life would have been like if we had stayed in.

If things go downhill (further) within the EU, will all the remainers be cheering and thanking all the leavers?

Strange logic blame eu for uks problems but if brexit fails nobody is to blame!

Do people who voted for Thatcher still support the Single Market, which I understand was one of her ideas?

If things go downhill (further) within the EU, will all the remainers be cheering and thanking all the leavers?

Why would we cheer something going 'downhill'? Why would you applaud something awful happening elsewhere in the world? Your comment really sums up the mindset of certain leavers I think.

As a remainer, I will cheer and thank the leavers in the future when I see:

• our economy is healthier than it was when we were in the EU
• our NHS is functioning well and fully-staffed (because we're told that one of the reasons the NHS is on its knees is too many foreigners...)
• our food prices are stable with no detriment to food quality
• our country's wealth redistributed so that struggling parts of the country get more (given that the 'left behind' are so frequently cited as another reason for wanting to leave the EU)
• we have full, well-paid employment (because we're told our low wages are because of a reliance on immigrant workers)
• we are not relying on arms sales to dubious regimes to prop up our economy
• our environmental standards have not slipped

etc etc.

I will even kiss the feet of leave voters if all of the above happens.

OP, I voted Remain and firmly believe that the best future for Britain lies within the EU. I will be personally impacted as I am married to someone from another EU country and am currently living in a different EU country. I can't get dual citizenship through him because we have to move to his country for that so I am possibly going to lose a lot of the rights I currently have. We are not sure what will happen to us and it is very unsettling.

I also know that patronising and offending people who voted for Brexit is not going to help the situation. There is a massive range of reasons why people voted that way and to treat them as a homogeneous group is a massive over-simplification.

I see an awful lot of people who say "it is over get over it" and that is fair enough if they feel that way.

What I can't get my head around is how many people who really believe that we should stay in the EU feel that their best interest is to offend and belittle people who didn't agree at the Referendum.

If there ends up being another referendum, or a vote on whatever exit package is put in place, or even if we want as soft a Brexit as possible, we need to persuade people who voted Brexit that our way could be better.

There is a massive scale of people who voted for Brexit. Some who absolutely believe that it is the way forward for the country and some who were far less definite in their view. But the environment of us and them makes it impossible to discuss the issues is killing discussion and an opportunity for middle ground.

It is also allowing people like Boris Johnson strut about in an embarrassing way, damaging the negotiation process because we have an environment where you are either a leaver or remainer and if you are a leaver you can't criticise Boris because he is in your team and if you are a remainer your criticism doesn't count because you are on the other team.

I don't see Boris as my team - I think he didn't believe in Brexit, thought it wouldn't happen and just fronted the campaign to stick it to DC and gather the 'glory' of being seen as a voice of the people. I don't think he believed for one minute that he might actually have to deliver. Which is why imo he looked like a rabbit in the headlights when the result came in. Gove deserves a lot of criticism in life but I think he did the country a solid in throwing Boris under the bus. Bad enough having him as foreign sec, can you imagine if he'd ended up as pm.

@IWannaSeeHowItEnds

Sorry, I didn't mean that everyone who voted for Brexit loved Boris, more that the current environment has made it far more difficult to critisise his destructive attitude towards negotiation.

Sorry Ausparent. I hope I didn't come across as arsey. I'm just keen to distance myself from him

I also know that patronising and offending people who voted for Brexit is not going to help the situation. There is a massive range of reasons why people voted that way and to treat them as a homogeneous group is a massive over-simplification.

What I can't get my head around is how many people who really believe that we should stay in the EU feel that their best interest is to offend and belittle people who didn't agree at the Referendum.

What I can't get my head around is how many people who believe that we should leave the EU feel that it is okay to offend and belittle people who didn't agree at the referendum. From June 2016, we've been called names (libtards/remainiacs), been told to suck it up etc. Read any Pro Leave Facebook page and read the disparaging, and often violent, comments about 'remoaners'. We are also treated as a homogenous group (according to the most vociferous Leavers, we are commies/ loony left) when it's very clear that there were plenty of left-leaning leave voters and right-leaning remain voters.
The divisions are there now and since June 2016 absolutely nothing has been done by our government to heal these. Until it is properly acknowledged that 48% of voters did not want Brexit, the division is likely to get worse.
Ausparent you seem to be laying the blame for post-Brexit division squarely at the feet of remainers. Please don't.

To be fair most people who voted to remain did get over it. They may still engage in the occasional discussion about why they voted to stay when prompted but they don't remoan. Remoaning is just annoying, no wonder remoaners getbelittled.

"Remoaning is just annoying, no wonder remoaners getbelittled."

It's called democracy! Allowing other people to express their views, however annoying those views may seem to you.

two by the same token leavers have been called racist, thick, accused of destroying the country. It all has to stop because I think everyone voted for what they believe to be the best thing for the country, in the long run.
To come back to the issue of blame, yes I do blame our politicians for their pathetic infighting and power struggles, instead of concentrating on getting the best possible outcomes for the country.

I don't know if Downing Street monitors all internet discussions about Brexit but if you're reading Theresa, please deal with Boris. I kerp thinking about that poor woman in prison in Iran and the complete dogs dinner he is making of trying to free her.

Ttbb Remoaning is just annoying, no wonder remoaners getbelittled.

And there we have it. A fantastic demonstration of a leaver insulting and demeaning people who voted differently. Nice goading Ttbb.

I think basically what has happened is that a group of the poorest in society have been led to blame the problems of late capitalism on the EU and on immigration. There's quite a lot of evidence that the government has allowed the financial burden post financial crash to fall disproportionately on the poorest and least well off, while protecting the middle classes and that the financial sector has been prioritised over more productive areas of commerce.

They are absolutely bloody right that their lot in life stinks, and that other people aren't going through the same pain, and they have every right to want to change that. What has happened, though, is that they've misidentified the causes of the issue, with the tragic result that they've voted for something that is fairly like to make their lives a whole lot worse, by further eroding the workers rights and the environmental regulations that protect those at the bottom.

I kerp thinking about that poor woman in prison in Iran and the complete dogs dinner he is making of trying to free her.
Write to your MP if you feel strongly about this. I have. That's what they're there for. BJ isn't fit for office.

I think you sum up the situation well whiskyowl.

Who will be blamed? Why the EU of course - that undemocratic brunch of zealots, tied up in their red tape.

Why? Because sooner or later our European friends will quite rightly lose patience with the impossible demands of May's govt.

It is not about political conviction. It is about trade and how it is regulated. What the government is proposing is a logical impossibility. We are in very deep shit and the rich irony is that it is the poor who will suffer the most. Irony, because, broadly speaking, it was the most deprived areas of the UK that swung the vote - those that had benefited most from massive EU spending on infrastructure and other forms of regional development, yet were the least likely to be au fait with the arcane complexities of international trade, and why should they be. They were led to believe that a vote was a blow against'them' . The elite. The educated middle class.

Trouble is it has backfired horribly and those pulling the strings will reap rich rewards, and the poorer who by and large with some exceptions on both sides voted for this disaster will get very much poorer and after March 2019, be horribly exposed to sub standard goods from the famous chlorinated chicken to dodgy medicines.

I don't necessarily think that it was the most deprived areas which swung the vote - I think it was as much to do with the comfortably off in the Tory voting south-east. They may suffer, but nothing like the extend of those in the deprived areas.

Hi P
Maybe a bit of both?

Peregrina
I don't necessarily think that it was the most deprived areas which swung the vote - I think it was as much to do with the comfortably off in the Tory voting south-east. They may suffer, but nothing like the extend of those in the deprived areas.

I think you're dead right. I live there and have had to put up with people strutting up to me parties and barking "I'm a big Brexit man, me". The smugness can be sickening. Many people of a certain age group in many areas of the South-East bubble still think they'll be fine, with their hyperpriced houses and solid pensions. They may well be. But if you mention less well-off people, perhaps even to the north of Watford, they either can't or won't grasp how much they are going to be harmed by Brexit.

I live in the South East too. I got a particular delight at the Count for the GE when the braying Tories fell silent as their one time MP, lost her 9,500 majority. Yes, a most satisfying night.

I think basically what has happened is that a group of the poorest in society have been led to blame the problems of late capitalism on the EU and on immigration.

I disagree that it's the poorest in society that voted leave. Most inner cities voted remain. All my poor friends voted remain. All my rich friends voted leave. Lots of middle-income earners feel hard done by and voted leave. I'm poor, but I'm not stupid enough to blame my immigrant friends for that. I blame rampant capitalism, bad government, my employer and myself for not earning much.