Rumour has it, some remainers are a little glum.....

[Carolinesbeanies]

So in the spirit of sharing our deluded brexiteer cheerfulness, heres a round up of some of this weeks good news.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-5040279/UK-exports-booming-outside-Europe.html

http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/london-news/big-boost-world-bank-ranks-uk-seventh-in-its-doing-business-report/18554.article

https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/world-trade-makes-a-comeback-845798/amp

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-volkswagen/vw-explores-uk-banking-licence-ahead-of-brexit-idUKKBN1D22KR

The government have 'found' £60billion to put is a slush fund for brexit.

https://amp.ft.com/content/f3271ac7-7439-319f-ba90-9252f59aafee

And in the week that saw the interest rate rise, the Bank of England said gloomily "as migration tightens, we will see wage growth". Note the 'we will'.

Excellent. All this whilst the media obsess over impotent politicians as Britain works.

No deal

I've been reading these threads a bit, never posted as I just can't rtrft first they move so fast. I've decided it doesn't matter how anybody feels. Some people feel optimistic - good for them! some people feel pessimistic - oh dear, some politicians think it iw
will all be fantastic and some don't. It doesn't matter how anyone feels about it because nobody actually knows. I'm sure the politicians will make the best they can of the situation (by which I don't mean I trust them to be able to do an actual good job) but we will all just have to cope with the result whatever it ends up being and we won't know that for some tiume. So, very happy for you cheerful persons out there, no doubt preferable to being miserable for the next few years till we see what happens, but optimism is a point of view, it's not a set of facts that will change our future reality.

I’d like to believe that time4 but with David Davies negotiating I doubt it.

I agree, Ichbein.

"It doesn't matter how anyone feels about it because nobody actually knows"

Unfortunately, there are some facts. And if you look at them, they are depressing. The only way Brexiteers manage to be cheerful is by completely ignoring them.

As the saying goes, ignorance is bliss!

I think the whole FOM thing and leavers concerns are very mixed up in the minds of remainers. Firstly FOM is a very misleading name for something as it isn't the fact that EU citizens are free to move about the UK but it is because they are free to gain employment and claim benefits, including rights to education and the NHS just as any other citizen of the UK is that has always been the problem leavers have had with this.

So in the context of the NI/ROI border. It doesn't matter if anyone from the EU can come and go across the border just as it doesn't matter if the come and go across the channel. This goes the same for us in that I would hope that if we wanted to go on holiday to France or any other EU country we would be free to do so. Just as any business person would be free to travel across the borders.

The idea that we will have loads of EU citizens coming in over the Irish border is just daft. Why would they want to come to the UK once we are out of the EU? Why would they want to come to a country that no longer gives them all the rights and entitlements they can get in the rest of the EU? Unless they have specific trades/professions that we need then they won't get a work permit.

The fact that the £ has reduced in value makes the UK a less attractive place compared to the rEU and the increasing availability of decent jobs in their home countries will make it less likely that they would want to come here anyway.

As for illegal immigrants! why on earth would they try and smuggle themselves away in lorries on a long crossing to Ireland when, if they were that desperate they might as well just continue to try their luck in Calais. Anyway they are more likely to think they can melt away into the cosmopolitan, multi cultural areas in the south east.

Hic.  Evening. I may have had a wine.  Well done Children in Needers!

Busy day today, so just a quick scan round the feeds...

Unilad has been deleted from facebook. (I know, this is MN, but if your DHs are anything like mine, hes mortified!) Guido Fawkes reporting today. 34 million followers! Zapped! I did mention to DH its possibly due to an "horrific use of english" and pics of Alena Shishkova 

The ECB have refused to allow EU auditors in... Its a bugger when the monster you created turns on you!

http://www.euractiv.com/section/all/news/ecb-denies-eu-auditors-access-to-information-on-greek-bailouts/

Another good piece in Spiked today.

"re-establishing the link between its lawmakers and the people"

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/brexit-reuniting-politics-with-the-people/20547

Which prompts me to reflect its been a week thats seen a disproportionate amount of 'Im sure we told you that' moments. So bollocks to all that, I fancy a round up.

Monday the EU 'Army' signed on the dotted line. Tuesday, the goverrnments figures on the impact on housing from migration, were blown out of the water. (They under count by around 100% ...per year.) Wednesday, saw record numbers of EU nationals working in the UK, and Deutchebank CEO claim banking job losses will be nearer 74. Thursday saw the second Judge in a week, declare corruption within the EU judiciary. And then today the un-mandated (read, utterly un-accountable to anyone) ECB slams its doors on EU auditors.

Oh theres another one today, Macrons been making all the wrong noises again. Having a pop at Hungarys tax policies. (He needs reminding the EU dont have any authority over nation states domestic tax policies....yet.) However, I post this article, as you have to get to the bottom to find this little snippet.

"Mr Macron said the Brexit referendum was a moment when Britain “felt the importance of social convergence” and understood the drawbacks of opening its market to cheap labour."

Well no shit sherlock, yet again. Its certainly been a 'no shit sherlock' week.

https://www.ft.com/content/b119fe34-cbc5-11e7-ab18-7a9fb7d6163e

So to balance all that vindication  Heres a recap on this weeks cheery stuff.

Weve voted to repeal the European Communities Act. Hip Hip! The UK didnt sign the PESCO EU Army agreement. Hip Hip! Growth continues upwards. Hip Hip! Unemployment still trending down. Hip Hip! UK Unis 9 of the top 10 in the world. Hip. Hip! Withdrawal Bill has survived its first 2 days. Hip! Hip! Bond St, the 3rd most exclusive shopping street in the world. Hip Hip! S&P revised the UK banking ratings. Hip Hip! And 42 jobs at a Roller Rink in Wigan were saved this week just in time for christmas. Hip Hip Hooray!

And a huge hip hip hooray to the Children In Needers who ever you all are. £50million so far! Well done guys. Thats been a good week.

Lets do that again with

Hic. Evening. I may have had a wine. Well done Children in Needers!

Busy day today, so just a quick scan round the feeds...

Unilad has been deleted from facebook. (I know, this is MN, but if your DHs are anything like mine, hes mortified!) Guido Fawkes reporting today. 34 million followers! Zapped! I did mention to DH its possibly due to an "horrific use of english" and pics of Alena Shishkova

The ECB have refused to allow EU auditors in... Its a bugger when the monster you created turns on you!

http://www.euractiv.com/section/all/news/ecb-denies-eu-auditors-access-to-information-on-greek-bailouts/

Another good piece in Spiked today.

"re-establishing the link between its lawmakers and the people"

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/brexit-reuniting-politics-with-the-people/20547

Which prompts me to reflect its been a week thats seen a disproportionate amount of 'Im sure we told you that' moments. So bollocks to all that, I fancy a round up.

Monday the EU 'Army' signed on the dotted line. Tuesday, the goverrnments figures on the impact on housing from migration, were blown out of the water. (They under count by around 100% ...per year.) Wednesday, saw record numbers of EU nationals working in the UK, and Deutchebank CEO claim banking job losses will be nearer 74. Thursday saw the second Judge in a week, declare corruption within the EU judiciary. And then today the un-mandated (read, utterly un-accountable to anyone) ECB slams its doors on EU auditors.

Oh theres another one today, Macrons been making all the wrong noises again. Having a pop at Hungarys tax policies. (He needs reminding the EU dont have any authority over nation states domestic tax policies....yet.) However, I post this article, as you have to get to the bottom to find this little snippet.

"Mr Macron said the Brexit referendum was a moment when Britain “felt the importance of social convergence” and understood the drawbacks of opening its market to cheap labour."

Well no shit sherlock, yet again. Its certainly been a 'no shit sherlock' week.

https://www.ft.com/content/b119fe34-cbc5-11e7-ab18-7a9fb7d6163e

So to balance all that vindication Heres a recap on this weeks cheery stuff.

Weve voted to repeal the European Communities Act. Hip Hip! The UK didnt sign the PESCO EU Army agreement. Hip Hip! Growth continues upwards. Hip Hip! Unemployment still trending down. Hip Hip! UK Unis 9 of the top 10 in the world. Hip. Hip! Withdrawal Bill has survived its first 2 days. Hip! Hip! Bond St, the 3rd most exclusive shopping street in the world. Hip Hip! S&P revised the UK banking ratings. Hip Hip! And 42 jobs at a Roller Rink in Wigan were saved this week just in time for christmas. Hip Hip Hooray!

And a huge hip hip hooray to the Children In Needers who ever you all are. £50million so far! Well done guys. Thats been a good week.

More wine?

@Carolinesbeanies

Can you pleas explain the relevance of the ECB to Brexit and the UK (and therefore the audit on the Greek bailout)? I’ve heard this many times and don’t get it.

@Carolinesbeanies

I’ve read through your last post. A few more questions.

Weve voted to repeal the European Communities Act.

Who voted? When? What bill?

The UK didnt sign the PESCO EU Army agreement.

What army? Are you confusing things again? Show me where it says the EU intends to recruit troops.

FACT CHECK

Growth continues upwards.

True. At the lowest rate in the EU and at half the rate of Germany.

Unemployment still trending down.

Uh actually claimants went UP for the first time in years.

UK Unis 9 of the top 10 in the world.

Fantastic.

Withdrawal Bill has survived its first 2 days.

And we voted to cancel the ECA 1972? Sound consistent?

Bond St, the 3rd most exclusive shopping street in the world.

Whatever.

S&P revised the UK banking ratings.

Uh no S&P did no such thing. It revised the outlook from negative to stable and positive in two cases. This is not the same as changing debt ratings on a bank.

Note that the UK’s sovereign outlook is negative for S&P, Fitch and Moody’s but perhaps this is not something you’d like to hear.

And 42 jobs at a Roller Rink in Wigan were saved this week just in time for christmas.

Yippee. Brexit is a success!

I think the whole FOM thing and leavers concerns are very mixed up in the minds of remainers.

I'd say controlling borders and immigration is mixed up in the minds of leavers who didn't pay attention to the one land border the UK has with an EU country. There is now a quiet climb down by more "moderate" leavers who dismiss uncontrolled migration as ever really being an issue.

More hardline leavers will not be any happy with any uncontrolled migration proving Brexit is the pipe dream that cannot be delivered.

Dr Fox told the Sunday Times: “We made it clear that control of our own borders was one of the elements we wanted in the referendum, and unregulated free movement would seem to me not to keep faith with that decision.”

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/government-unveils-brexit-plan-border-10997158

EU migrants could still need visas to work legally in Britain.

But by entering the UK without any British checks, they could be at greater risk of exploitation by cruel gang masters and find themselves working in the underground economy.

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/unregulated-free-movement-would-not-keep-faith-with-brexit-1.3171635

UK Unis 9 of the top 10 in the world

Erm, have you not read your own link?

1. MIT - USA
2. Stanford - USA
3. Harvard - USA
4. Caltech - USA

We haven't become the 51st state yet. Is that something you're hoping for?

@CardinalSin

UK uni ranking is unimportant to the Brexit discussion. We have good unis. I hope it stays that way - Brexit is going to put them under severe stress.

And yes US unis are good too.

No one will argue that the “best” are in the UK and US.

Much rather debate the other random gibberish generation.

Merely pointing out yet another lie from the OP.

Wondering if her preference is for us to become the 51st state, which might explain her love of Brexit...

@CardinalSin

I get it. There’s just so many!

And 42 jobs at a Roller Rink in Wigan were saved this week just in time for christmas.

Yippee. Brexit is a success!

And DD3's favourite cars are doing driverless trials. Defo going to be no need to fork out for driving lessons for her in 10 years time.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42024880

Brexit will work.

A bold statement?

Here’s another, staying would have worked too.

I say this as the silent and moderate middle ground will quietly get on with it, those people who weighted up the pro and cons and came down on one side of the other are now pragmatically fed up and in many cases galvanised by the EU attitude of trying to reduce our competitiveness globally.

As one very clever and senior moderate remain colleague of mine said, they are starting to look like the unpopular kid who owns the only football shouting “you can’t play and it’s my ball”.

What will happen though is the extremists on both sides will increasingly become marginalised as the just that, the EDL and similar will still take offence at non white people whilst hankering to a KKK utopia that never existed.

Likewise, the fanatical remain camp will be seen as rabid frothy mouthed Europhiles who will never see any wrong in a federal superstate.

History shows us that extremist never win in the end and the reasonable moderate quiet masses will prevail whichever way the vote went.

On the footballing theme. Twitter debate I saw was arguing the UK were the ones taking away the ball, but the EU27 were carrying on playing without us cos they had their own ball.

All well and good till they realise a good chunk of the pitch belongs to us and we are the ones doing all the groundskeeping. (think 100bn + trade deficit in the EU's favour).

Muesli obviously hasn't come down yet from her lunch from Mr Vulcan.

Also, history doesn't show us that the moderates win through in the end, (whatever 'the end' means).

Take Russia as just one example example - murdered tens of millions of citizens from around 1927, and sought to aggressively expand 'communism in one country' by invading its neighbouring states and in the case of Ukraine, engineering the largest ever man made famine from 1933. Fast forward and 'the moderates have won through in the end' not. Instead people blather on about putin's legitimate 'sphere of influence' and get upset about the prospect of an EU army.

These are the same people who describe sept 1939- May 1940 as a 'phoney war', although millions of polish officers, soldiers, civilians were murdered.

Figment you are missing the UK perspective on pragmatism. Personally I put it down to the fact that most Brits are basically too lazy to be anything other than moderate - just like DD.

Either that or we got it all out our system with Edward I and Henry VIII and co.

One person's pragmatism is another person's insularity and complacency. I think what I dislike most about the tabloid politics of brexit is its 'I'm-alright-jackedness, built on the myth of 'Great Britain standing alone'.

We even self-identify as a nation as 'great', which is quite unusual.

fed up and in many cases galvanised by the EU attitude of trying to reduce our competitiveness globally.

UK reduced its competitiveness all by its self by selling off its industries

As one very clever and senior moderate remain colleague of mine said, they are starting to look like the unpopular kid who owns the only football shouting “you can’t play and it’s my ball”.

The UK has decided it doesn't want to play in the league. If you don't play in the league, you don't kick the ball.

Likewise, the fanatical remain camp will be seen as rabid frothy mouthed Europhiles who will never see any wrong in a federal superstate.

Nobody is suggesting the EU is perfect.

moderate quiet masses

Brexit (like Trump) is misguided populism. It is never quiet.

Has Caroline cheered the exclusion of a crucial clause that would transfer the recognition of animal sentience into UK law post-Brexit?

We're constantly being told that UK welfare standards will not slip post-Brexit, after all...

@twofingerstoEverything

In fact Chief Dotard David Davis is saying it will be a race to the top for standards. So ... the EU presumably prevents this from happening today ..???

And then Labour’s attempt to make any changes in employment law, environmental law etc subject to primary legislation has been overturned so that Ministers can do that.

RACE TO THE TOP. FOR DYSON AND CO.