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Brexit

Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'

979 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/10/2017 18:09

Phil Hammond called the EU the enemy. Then retracted it. A classic political move, to pitch to one group and then say you didn't mean it after all.

This is the UK's negotiation strategy. Because the negotiation isn't really with the EU. Its the ongoing debate over the what leaving the EU actually means since it wasn't officially defined prior to the referendum and has been left to politicians to say its one thing to persuade people to support them and then decided no that's not really what they meant after all.

The whole thing makes it impossible for the EU to respond to us, because we don't appear to know what we want.

The EU have been explicit in their position. So things they can not do because of the limitations of trade rules and EU law. Its possible work arounds could be possible for some things - but certainly not all which too many Brexiteers fail to acknowledge.

And then there is the a50 deadline which is like a snake coiled around May's neck slowly strangling her. A self imposed screwing of our negotiating position. One that kills off our Brexit options and ups the stakes into a brinkmanship battle - not with the EU but between the hardlines and the sane. Its not even about remaining, though that option might well end up being the only option left on the table through our own folly, rather than out of EU malice.

The longer we take to work out what we want the higher the stake become and the more we destroy the foundations of our economy in the meantime, even if we do stay in.

We have only just noticed that we've lost money worth 25% of our GDP and we have no net assets anymore, when in early 2016 we had significant assets. Project Fear they said was wrong. Well was it?

We are flat broke as a nation.

Then there is the Great Repel Bill. The Bill was supposed to be in the Commons this week. It was delayed a week due to the sheer number of amendments. There are nearly a dozen with enough Tory rebels to make them stick. Including one for parliament to have a meaningful vote on what option we take - including no deal. If parliament rejected this, we would be left in a situation where we sure as hell better hope a50 is reversible or we could end up unlawfully leave the EU by accident!

And the Lords could be fun for the Repel Bill. The Labour whip has vowed to examine every amendment properly even if the commons don't. And they are free and within their rights to do so.

Still May could exit stage left. Or left with egg all over her face as she has to suck up to the 'enemy' for being such a tool for the last 18months, because she hasn't made progress on the negotiations that really matter. The Tory party ones.

Whichever way you cut it, you can be sure on only one thing: it will go to the wire for both. And possibly beyond with an eleventh hour extension to prevent chaos.

There are hints that the public mood might be changing. Not fast enough. Yet. Interest rates? A break in the triple lock? Phil's budget sure will be interesting. Especially as Brexiteers want money to prepare and protect us from a no deal scenario which they also tell us will be just fine and won't be a problem. Bye Bye NHS, don't get flu this winter. As a note once infamously said: 'There's no many left'.

We are Greece. Only worse. And out of pressure and deadlines we alone created. We just haven't realised it. Yet.

And if this doesn't make you cringe and brace yourself in horror:

Danny Kemp‏ @dannyctkemp
May wants to take the floor at EU summit dinner on Thursday to explain Brexit policy to fellow leaders, senior official says

Just remember her party speech and think: What could possibly go wrong...

OP posts:
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missmoon · 18/10/2017 11:35

We were also told that the UK has definitely agreed to keep EU students fees for this years' starters at the same level as UK ones for their third years. But when we were investigating this last year - my son started this year, so is potentially affected - there were no guarantees about EU students and their status wrt fees for their third year as that starts in 2019.

I would check with his university, as most universities have made commitments to keep fees at the same level as domestic fees for the entire duration of the degree, for any EU domiciled students starting either this year (2017/18), or next year (2018/19). International student fees are entirely up to each university's discretion, although the government could agree a cap (but would be unlikely to do so, as it would be discrimination wrt other international students).

woman11017 · 18/10/2017 11:39

@mattholehouse
CCHQ decides to weaponise "no deal" against Jeremy Corbyn ahead of PMQs. High-stakes game to play.

She writes a bit like one of our woolly minded chipolata customers.

Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'
woman11017 · 18/10/2017 11:40

Part 2

Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'
prettybird · 18/10/2017 11:52

"a successful exit from the European Union" is the very definition of an oxymoronic phrase Hmm

Cailleach1 · 18/10/2017 11:58

The implications for the U.K. are substantial: finance and related professional services bring in some £190 billion ($248 billion) a year, representing 12 percent of the British economy.

The vast sums of ca. 10 billion per year will plug that gap completely and then leave the 10 billion free to be used again for the NHS. When that is used up, it will again leave the 10 billion free to be spent giving 'even more' to farmers. Boris Johnson is on a new report saying the farmers in NI could get even more than the EU payments. This is not an ordinary 10 billion. It is a magic and creative 10 billion which can be reused every single time it is spent.

I find the homestead tips interesting. I'm going to prune my Chinese quince right back. Over a few days so as not to give it a big shock. Does anyone know if that will make it become very fruitful next year?
Could someone knowledgeable, pretty please, answer when the next discussion is required?

BigChocFrenzy · 18/10/2017 11:58

The petition and the occasional Brexit visitor are for the sme reason:
they are afraid the govt will be unable to Brexit

or - nearly as bad for some - it will be EEA / EFTA,
so FOM and the EFTA court (kissing cousin of ECJ ) would remain
so would E27 expats with their current civil rights
and the Uk would lose its rights to fire workers on whim, to dump sewage on beaches

There is indeed a chance that Brexit will be cancelled at the last moment, if the govt sees worse electoral Armageddon for the Tory party from the economic crash than from a noisy Tory party civil war.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/10/2017 12:06

woman We need to remind Leavers that the EU cannot stop the Uk leaving.
It is not "stopping" someone if you refuse to give them cake
The Uk is free to leave without cake, amytime.

If I leave a job, my employer is not "stopping" me by refusing to continue my salary until I find another job as good - and then to continue paying me

Theworldisfullofidiots · 18/10/2017 12:07

Why are there people who are so invested in the idea of leaving the eu that it’s insufficient to have a government that’s committed to delivering this, but that it needs to be done as quickly as possible, without any regard for doing so carefully or without undesired legal ramifications?

Because they are frightened if that it was looked at properly and people were better informed (Which I liked to think would be inevitable with time) the balance of public opinion would swing.
This has been some people's life work and now they are in denial about the fact that their baby is ugly. Even though other people are beginning to realise. Their baby also doesn't have Shrek's redeeming features of kindness and a great personality.

Holliewantstobehot · 18/10/2017 12:09

Even I can see that the no deal threat is a stupid empty threat. It would damage our country and cause the 27 to band together to protect themselves. Michel Barnier looked incredulous when it was raised at the press conference. The only reason its been raised is because the EU have the upper hand and everyone knows it, but the Tories won't admit it. Instead they churn out bollocks about cars. But we will still buy their cars even if they are more expensive because there's no alternative. Unless we're going to go all DDR and manufacture a trabi type car that you have to go on a waiting list for.

I think labours lying in wait for the opinion polls to swing against brexit before coming out for a single market/EEA approach. This is what Emily Thornberry is in favour of. In reality they can just sit back and let the Tories fight between themselves and make a massive mess of it all, whilst stoking the fire here and there.

LurkingHusband · 18/10/2017 12:10

The petition and the occasional Brexit visitor are for the same reason: they are afraid the govt will be unable to Brexit

Which, paradoxically, a no-deal almost guarantees (I believe).

I'm also picking up a slight vibe that extreme Brexiteers are wary of a no-deal because it's not the blaze of glory they appear to have sold themselves. I'm reminded of people who would come into my Dads garage determined to beat him down on price, and becoming quite agitated when he just turned the job down flat. (As I learned young, one of the skills in business is knowing which deals will cost more than you will ever make. And it's hard to write that and not think it's a paradigm for Brexit Grin ).

Essentially, no-deal is a one-off headline; whereas any deal would bring with it the opportunity of years of yah-boo-sucks politics.

Peregrina · 18/10/2017 12:19

Did mayonnaise have sugar in it? Which has now been taken out in favour of artificial sweetening to avoid the sugar tax?

LurkingHusband · 18/10/2017 12:21

We need to remind Leavers that the EU cannot stop the Uk leaving.

I've found a few Leavers who seem to think that is the case, (back to paradox again) with one or two insisting it is. Fertile grounds for some pseudo psychology about how it seems some people want Brexit to be a fight. (as we know there will always be people who go drinking and looking for a fight).

This is where Britains true friends should be holding us back shouting "they're not worth it UK !"

usuallydormant · 18/10/2017 12:46

My German is pretty basic but sometimes comedy transcends language...

twitter.com/JORISLUIJENDIJK/status/920548595660713984

Motheroffourdragons · 18/10/2017 12:52

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

CardinalSin · 18/10/2017 13:31

Repel Bill delayed because they realise it's crap, presumably.

LurkingHusband · 18/10/2017 13:32

(looks up "accelerate")

woman11017 · 18/10/2017 13:41

@Telegraph
Army could be deployed to protect the border if Britain leaves the EU without a Brexit deal

@britainelects

Westminster voting intention:
LAB: 44% (+2)
CON: 38% (-)
LDEM: 7% (-1)

Cardinel and after/ if repel's ever passed:
@IanDunt
Peers are going to lead that bill down a dark alley and kick the shit out of it.

Cailleach1 · 18/10/2017 13:44

Sky news doing more Brexit related news than the BBC. With the BBC you would think the biggest issue to impact on the UK and which will have huge repercussions across the whole country deserves only a little reporting.

There was an economist (I think) on the BBC news last night. He disputed the OECD's report that reversing Brexit. After his segment, I realise he has no reason for disputing other than saying they had too pessimistic an outlook. There was no 'they are wrong on that, because...fact'. Oh and he kept talking about tariffs again. I think there should be a more responsible reporting on stuff like that at this late stage. Have someone there who knows their apples to crystallise the points and put what the other person is saying into perspective. Otherwise it is just a bit of marketing. Even with that you can report to the advertising standards authority if they are misleading.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41652416

Cailleach1 · 18/10/2017 13:45

that reversing Brexit would boost the economy

woman11017 · 18/10/2017 13:52

saying they had too pessimistic an outlook which has been part of leavers' 'arguments' on other threads.

reversing Brexit would boost the economy a very tidy, incoming government economic boost, John........ Wink

LurkingHusband · 18/10/2017 13:54

www.crowdjustice.com/case/secretbrexitstudies/

RedToothBrush · 18/10/2017 14:00

@Telegraph
Army could be deployed to protect the border if Britain leaves the EU without a Brexit deal
Would that be our border with the Irish Republic?

Repel Bill delayed because they realise it's crap, presumably.
I'm HOWLING at this gem.

The Sun are loving May this morning:

Sun Politics‏*@SunPolitics*
How much more of the malfunctioning May-bot will Tory backbenchers will be willing to sit quietly through?

www.thesun.co.uk/news/4712695/how-much-more-of-the-malfunctioning-may-bot-will-tory-backbenchers-will-be-willing-to-sit-quietly-through/
How much more of the malfunctioning May-bot will Tory backbenchers be willing to sit quietly through?
An unusually well-prepared Jeremy Corbyn came to the Commons fully-armed and well and truly duffed the PM up at the Despatch Box

Speaking of the Maybot, the GMB have launched a campaign featuring the Maybot:
GMB Union‏*@GMB*_union
The Maybots are coming to pinch our pay! Help us end the public sector #PayPinch #ScrapTheCap

Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'
Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'
Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'
OP posts:
woman11017 · 18/10/2017 14:07

@AdamBienkov
Tories say MP missing vote on benefit delays in order to referee a football match has time 'better spent elsewhere'

Is it just 25 tories for whom this is a re election issue?

I think they might be having an accidental poll tax moment.

LurkingHusband · 18/10/2017 14:10

Army could be deployed to protect the border if Britain leaves the EU without a Brexit deal

Presumably under secret terms of engagement (if that's allowed by all the conventions the UK is signed up to Hmm).

Will they have orders to use lethal force against British citizens leaving ?