Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'

[RedToothBrush]

Phil Hammond called the EU the enemy. Then retracted it. A classic political move, to pitch to one group and then say you didn't mean it after all.

This is the UK's negotiation strategy. Because the negotiation isn't really with the EU. Its the ongoing debate over the what leaving the EU actually means since it wasn't officially defined prior to the referendum and has been left to politicians to say its one thing to persuade people to support them and then decided no that's not really what they meant after all.

The whole thing makes it impossible for the EU to respond to us, because we don't appear to know what we want.

The EU have been explicit in their position. So things they can not do because of the limitations of trade rules and EU law. Its possible work arounds could be possible for some things - but certainly not all which too many Brexiteers fail to acknowledge.

And then there is the a50 deadline which is like a snake coiled around May's neck slowly strangling her. A self imposed screwing of our negotiating position. One that kills off our Brexit options and ups the stakes into a brinkmanship battle - not with the EU but between the hardlines and the sane. Its not even about remaining, though that option might well end up being the only option left on the table through our own folly, rather than out of EU malice.

The longer we take to work out what we want the higher the stake become and the more we destroy the foundations of our economy in the meantime, even if we do stay in.

We have only just noticed that we've lost money worth 25% of our GDP and we have no net assets anymore, when in early 2016 we had significant assets. Project Fear they said was wrong. Well was it?

We are flat broke as a nation.

Then there is the Great Repel Bill. The Bill was supposed to be in the Commons this week. It was delayed a week due to the sheer number of amendments. There are nearly a dozen with enough Tory rebels to make them stick. Including one for parliament to have a meaningful vote on what option we take - including no deal. If parliament rejected this, we would be left in a situation where we sure as hell better hope a50 is reversible or we could end up unlawfully leave the EU by accident!

And the Lords could be fun for the Repel Bill. The Labour whip has vowed to examine every amendment properly even if the commons don't. And they are free and within their rights to do so.

Still May could exit stage left. Or left with egg all over her face as she has to suck up to the 'enemy' for being such a tool for the last 18months, because she hasn't made progress on the negotiations that really matter. The Tory party ones.

Whichever way you cut it, you can be sure on only one thing: it will go to the wire for both. And possibly beyond with an eleventh hour extension to prevent chaos.

There are hints that the public mood might be changing. Not fast enough. Yet. Interest rates? A break in the triple lock? Phil's budget sure will be interesting. Especially as Brexiteers want money to prepare and protect us from a no deal scenario which they also tell us will be just fine and won't be a problem. Bye Bye NHS, don't get flu this winter. As a note once infamously said: 'There's no many left'.

We are Greece. Only worse. And out of pressure and deadlines we alone created. We just haven't realised it. Yet.

And if this doesn't make you cringe and brace yourself in horror:

Danny Kemp‏ @dannyctkemp
May wants to take the floor at EU summit dinner on Thursday to explain Brexit policy to fellow leaders, senior official says

Just remember her party speech and think: What could possibly go wrong...

But I also don't get why in real life people aren't more bothered.

I think that illustrates how the vast majority of people were not especially interested in the EU before the Referendum, i.e. neither for nor against it. This is despite the Leave crew telling us that this was the most vital issue for most people and that it's democracy, we are leaving, what don't you understand.

The Remain booklet was so thin on detail - however, the Tories couldn't shout out about what the EU had done for us, or people might have begun to wake up to the fact that austerity, and shortcomings in the NHS were the result of Tory policies and nothing to do with the EU.

Theresa May has the chance to go down as a good, wise and strong prime minister. But only if she stops this ridiculously damaging charade and stops Brexit, possibly sacrificing her party and her job, but saving the country.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/16/theresa-may-brexit-cant-be-done?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I commented on that last night melassa; it is peculiar that several men should turn up at the same time, for the same purpose, on a predominately female forum.

This happens on feminist threads, same old, same old chipolata adolfs.
We can add sausage recipes to our gardening tips.

Have we read this,has it been on another thread? I think it contains clues of the government's script.
https://www.mckinsey.com/global-themes/europe/productivity-the-route-to-brexit-successs_

DDs department paid £1.9 million for a McKinsey report we haven't seen, but presumably this material has been fed into or constitutes the elusive impact assessments.The McKinsey conclusions I'm guessing must be done by the same consultants as those who did the synopsis linked to above.

The worrying things in it include:
"Further post-Brexit benefits could be realized through targeted deregulation. To a great extent, this will depend on the political viability of deregulation and the extent to which equivalent regulation is required to retain access to EU markets. Analysts have highlighted potential opportunities in relaxing the Working Time Directive as well as environmental, climate-change, and energy-efficiency regulations, such as the Renewable Energy Strategy.

Other UK regulations, including restrictions on state aid, government procurement, value-added tax, and competition law, are more stringent than those set by the European Union."

There goes the minimum paid holiday regulations everyone...

Interestingly, members of the cabinet have been using material which looks very,very familiar to conclusions in this report...remember all that sudden talk about an 'imaginative' approach, also the suggestion of affordable housing? It seems the government are using a more detailed version of this as their crib sheet...

it is peculiar that several men should turn up at the same time, for the same purpose, on a predominately female forum.

With the sole purpose of being an arse.

Exactly world

Also making it clear they are male; I wouldn't know the sex of most posters on here but these latest few have made it very clear which is odd too.

The Tories are in a bind politically with the McKinsey stuff (as the quotation points out - "To a great extent, this will depend on the political viability of deregulation").

The working time directive is already toothless in many fields in the UK, but other attacks on workers' rights would be an open goal for Labour.

Ditto any rowing back on measures to protect the environment, which are hugely more popular with the younger generations.

Sorry Badders, missed your comment. Glad it's not just me. Love chipolata Adolfs, pretty much sums it up and has now conjured an image I can't get out of my brain. They probably thought they were being clever in fitting with the family theme .
I'm very impressed with everyone's patience and measured responses on some of the Brexit threads. Alas I see the same posters spout the same loony shite and I have to switch off for my sanity. I'm grateful to you all for showing me that there is still a vein of reason within the UK and madness/apathy hasn't affected everyone. A lot of my ardent remainer friends appear to have fallen into the apathy trap, a few even trust the govt to "do the right thing" in terms of getting a deal and nothing will change much anyway. I despair!

Thanks lonelyplanetmum US spelling :

As part of a larger campaign to tackle the high unemployment rate, the government asked McKinsey to help improve the labor agency’s performance. Specifically, the McKinsey team was asked to support the reform of the agency’s governance and operational model, as well as an overhaul of its IT system

But this is how it's working in practice:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3062642-PLEASE-can-someone-help-my-computer-is-a-blank-screen-after-update-in-tears-I-need-to-job-search-in-so-much-trouble?pg=5

That's
environmental, climate-change, and energy-efficiency regulations, such as the Renewable Energy Strategy.
Designated areas of outstanding natural beauty to be used as lorry parks in Kent. We'll be gone in a while, the earth needs to survive. Look at the 1000s of deaths due to air pollution in our cities. So called violent 'foreigners' my arse. Environmental destruction is killing our kids.

twitter.com/radicalsuk
Pro EU pro tech party.
Radical dads?
Anyone else bored with the political patriarchy?

I reckon labor is right, it's not like the Tories care about u.
I'm here all week.

.

My first thoughts on the McKinsey report was that it was written before May's ill fated General Election, the result of which, by emboldening the Labour party rather than destroying them, threw a large spanner in the works of de-regulating workers rights.

Other comments in the report about the need to improve the long tail of educational underachievement, get more women into productive work and have a more equitable housing policy are statement which few would IMO disagree with, but which current Tory policies exacerbate rather than facilitate.

I noted the US spelling too - the 'math' and 'labor'. Could they not at least dress it up for a UK audience? It makes me wonder just how well they understand the UK.

melsssa
Yep
This thread is very much my safe place right now 😔

Badders and Hashi

Peregrina this report, Baker and Fox's plans are reminiscent of the role of Ian Mac Gregor in the British steel and coal industries in the 1980s. Just read that Thatcher had wanted to put him in charge of the NHS! Looks like this was always a long term project for the extreme right tories.

Government response to my signing "Leave Immediately" petition yesterday ....

start
Dear LurkingHusband,

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Leave the EU immediately”.

Government responded:

The country voted to leave the EU, and this Government respects that. A smooth and orderly exit is in the interest of both the UK and the EU. 

The country voted to leave the EU, and the Government is clear that there must be no attempts to remain inside the EU, no attempts to rejoin it through the back door, and no second referendum.

In leaving the EU the Government will seek the best deal for the UK maximising the benefits from leaving the EU – control over our borders, laws and money – while maintaining the greatest possible access to EU markets and continuing to work with our European neighbours on common problems. After withdrawal, the UK will bring an end to the direct jurisdiction of the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) in the United Kingdom.

The Prime Minister has been clear that the days of Britain making vast contributions to the European Union every year will end. The European Commission has set out the European Union’s position on the financial settlement, and the Government is undertaking a rigorous examination of the detail of this.

The Government has already introduced legislation to ensure the UK exits the EU with certainty, continuity and control. A smooth and orderly exit is in the national interest and further legislation will be introduced to deliver that.

Both the UK and the EU should want to achieve the best possible outcome and the strongest possible partnership for the future. The Government believes that a deep and special partnership between an independent UK and the EU is in the interests of both sides.

Department for Exiting the European Union

end

There's no deal for no deal.

*LH...
*
That comment " The Prime Minister has been clear that the days of Britain making vast contributions to the European Union every year will end" makes me so mad.it was only ever 1.5% of national expenditure for heavens sake.

Why do they persist in promoting that propaganda in official government communications over a year after the referendum?

Deep and special is the new strong and stable

May wants to take the floor at EU summit dinner on Thursday to explain Brexit policy to fellow leaders, senior official says

That's going to go just as well as this week's dinner and the Florence speech.

Thank you Red, as always.

Scouring MN (as one does) I notice a thread about the changing taste (?) of Mayonnaise (of all things). Which highlights nicely the other way of disguising price rises is to cheapen the product.

Did anyone watch the BBC prog about bakers in Victorian England last year ? Food adulteration has a long an noble tradition in England, so we should celebrate it's revival.

Plan B:
waitingfortax.com/2017/06/11/how-to-choose-the-next-prime-minister-and-influence-brexit/

For me the more interesting question is the opposite one. Why are there people who are so invested in the idea of leaving the eu that it’s insufficient to have a government that’s committed to delivering this, but that it needs to be done as quickly as possible, without any regard for doing so carefully or without undesired legal ramifications?

Many folk have come on here explaining that they carefully weighed up both sides of the argument and voted leave for their children and grandchildren (without asking them, I’d wager). So why the rush?