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Brexit

Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'

979 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/10/2017 18:09

Phil Hammond called the EU the enemy. Then retracted it. A classic political move, to pitch to one group and then say you didn't mean it after all.

This is the UK's negotiation strategy. Because the negotiation isn't really with the EU. Its the ongoing debate over the what leaving the EU actually means since it wasn't officially defined prior to the referendum and has been left to politicians to say its one thing to persuade people to support them and then decided no that's not really what they meant after all.

The whole thing makes it impossible for the EU to respond to us, because we don't appear to know what we want.

The EU have been explicit in their position. So things they can not do because of the limitations of trade rules and EU law. Its possible work arounds could be possible for some things - but certainly not all which too many Brexiteers fail to acknowledge.

And then there is the a50 deadline which is like a snake coiled around May's neck slowly strangling her. A self imposed screwing of our negotiating position. One that kills off our Brexit options and ups the stakes into a brinkmanship battle - not with the EU but between the hardlines and the sane. Its not even about remaining, though that option might well end up being the only option left on the table through our own folly, rather than out of EU malice.

The longer we take to work out what we want the higher the stake become and the more we destroy the foundations of our economy in the meantime, even if we do stay in.

We have only just noticed that we've lost money worth 25% of our GDP and we have no net assets anymore, when in early 2016 we had significant assets. Project Fear they said was wrong. Well was it?

We are flat broke as a nation.

Then there is the Great Repel Bill. The Bill was supposed to be in the Commons this week. It was delayed a week due to the sheer number of amendments. There are nearly a dozen with enough Tory rebels to make them stick. Including one for parliament to have a meaningful vote on what option we take - including no deal. If parliament rejected this, we would be left in a situation where we sure as hell better hope a50 is reversible or we could end up unlawfully leave the EU by accident!

And the Lords could be fun for the Repel Bill. The Labour whip has vowed to examine every amendment properly even if the commons don't. And they are free and within their rights to do so.

Still May could exit stage left. Or left with egg all over her face as she has to suck up to the 'enemy' for being such a tool for the last 18months, because she hasn't made progress on the negotiations that really matter. The Tory party ones.

Whichever way you cut it, you can be sure on only one thing: it will go to the wire for both. And possibly beyond with an eleventh hour extension to prevent chaos.

There are hints that the public mood might be changing. Not fast enough. Yet. Interest rates? A break in the triple lock? Phil's budget sure will be interesting. Especially as Brexiteers want money to prepare and protect us from a no deal scenario which they also tell us will be just fine and won't be a problem. Bye Bye NHS, don't get flu this winter. As a note once infamously said: 'There's no many left'.

We are Greece. Only worse. And out of pressure and deadlines we alone created. We just haven't realised it. Yet.

And if this doesn't make you cringe and brace yourself in horror:

Danny Kemp‏ @dannyctkemp
May wants to take the floor at EU summit dinner on Thursday to explain Brexit policy to fellow leaders, senior official says

Just remember her party speech and think: What could possibly go wrong...

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ElenaGreco123 · 26/10/2017 09:14

Oh, sorry. I have found her on the North blog.

Cailleach1 · 26/10/2017 09:24

Kit Malthouse just came across as an ignorant bulsh*tter on the Treasury Committee. Had to laugh at Malthouse saying 'we'll have to agree to disagree' to Ivan Rogers. Like anyone would regard their knowledge and experience to have an equal weighting. or couldn't see Malthouse has travelled a long way with a brass neck

They are so used to holding forth and throwing out any old bs on the Daily Politics without any challenge or correction of facts.

mathanxiety · 26/10/2017 09:31

Wrt that Independent article (composed of a good deal of gossip) William 'Bill' Browder is a man who doesn't believe in paying taxes.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Browder
Browder entered the financial sector. In 1998, he gave up his U.S. citizenship and became a British citizen to avoid paying US taxes on foreign investments.[2][15] At the time, he was working in the Eastern European practice of the Boston Consulting Group in London[16] and managed the Russian proprietary investments desk at Salomon Brothers...

...In 1999, Avisma filed a RICO lawsuit against Browder and other Avisma investors including Kenneth Dart, alleging they illegally siphoned company assets into offshore accounts and then transferred the funds to US accounts at Barclays. Browder and his co-defendants settled with Avisma in 2000; they sold their Avisma shares as part of the confidential settlement agreement...

...In March 2013, HSBC, a bank that serves as the trustee and manager of Hermitage Capital Management, announced that it would end the fund's operations in Russia. The decision was taken amid two legal cases against Browder: a libel court case in London and a trial in absentia for tax evasion in Moscow.

(RICO is 'The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, commonly referred to as the RICO Act or simply RICO... a United States federal law that provides for extended criminal penalties and a civil cause of action for acts performed as part of an ongoing criminal organization. The RICO Act focuses specifically on racketeering, and it allows the leaders of a syndicate to be tried for the crimes which they ordered others to do or assisted them in doing, closing a perceived loophole that allowed a person who instructed someone else to, for example, murder, to be exempt from the trial because they did not actually commit the crime personally'. [RICO entry, Wikipedia]
Originally used to prosecute the Mafia, now used in both criminal and civil cases against fraudsters. Like Browder.)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Browder again:
On 27 July 2017, Browder testified to the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee on Russia’s alleged interference in the 2016 US presidential election in regards to the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) and Fusion GPS. The latter is the opposition research firm based in Washington D.C. that commissioned former MI6 staffer Christopher Steele to collect information on Donald Trump’s ties with Russia.

And this is where matters get a little circular:
www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/clinton-campaign-dnc-paid-for-research-that-led-to-russia-dossier/2017/10/24/226fabf0-b8e4-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html
'Clinton campaign, DNC paid for research that led to Russia dossier'
The same company that compiled a questionable dossier on Trump and prostitutes in Moscow contributed research on a legal case initiated under the Magnitsky Act, which was the topic under discussion in the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing. Fusion seems to be very willing to come up with whatever their customers want to hear.

According to the Independent, the alleged Putin money is in the hands of associates and fronts in Russia. According to Browder in his testimony before the US Senate Judiciary Committee on the topic of Browder's late lawyer Magnitsky, the money is in the west. I suspect if it was in the west it would have been found by now.

The problem with going after Trump with material that may not be true is that evidence has to stand up to a high level of scrutiny. Every item that can be discredited ends up as a credit to Trump, unfortunately, and a blow to the credibility of his opposition. It is always a case of one up and one down.

The problem with allowing foreign policy (in this case towards Russia) to be taken over by a man with an axe to grind and his personal reputation at stake thanks to various charges leveled against him by the Russian prosecutor is that that is not what government is supposed to do.

No vested interests there at all, nothing to see folks.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Browder Wiki again:
Is all as it seems in the carefully constructed narrative of Bill Browder?
In 2013, the US Attorney's Office for New York's Southern District filed a civil asset forfeiture case against Prevezon Holdings Limited, a real estate holding company belonging to Russian businessman Denis Katsyv. The case was based on information from Browder.[44] Prevezon and the Department of Justice settled the case in May 2017 for $5.9 million.

Browder attempted to resist subpoenas that would force him to reveal his sources for information he gave to federal prosecutors. The court ruled that Browder was not required to comply with a subpoena served in Aspen, Colorado, because he "does not live or conduct business transactions regularly in Aspen", but he was required to comply with a subpoena served in New York, where he had been discussing his new book on a TV show. He was deposed in April 2015

RedToothBrush · 26/10/2017 09:48

I find it hard to believe there would be actual ration books as opposed to cards to swipe, though maybe I shouldn't raise an eyebrow at that.

You are the minister for rationing. Your logistical choices are:

Import enough paper to the UK and book enough press time to complete the job. Remembering the Tories struggled to do so for their election leaflets in a short period of time. Outsourcing to the EU where there are bigger presses and a better paper supply chain is not an option due to the embarrassment it would cause

OR

Set up a brand new government IT system from scratch capable of handling this. This includes hiring the best programmers in the country at a time when well paying private sector companies are struggling to do this due to lack of skilled people. You will have people literally naming their price.

Which ever system you ultimately go for, you will need to register every person in the country for this. No current database is sufficient as it will need to include children and foreign nationals not on HMRC and people who do not have NHS numbers.

You will have to ensure the system is secure and not vulnerable to fraud or identity theft.

You will need to distribute to every individual in the country either a card or book, ensuring they know how the system works and allowing for accessibility issues - such as disability or language. This will include registering individuals or institutions as proxies in some cases.

You will need to need to ensure your system for dealing with people who, for whatever reason, do not receive their ration card/book. This will need to be efficient and prompt to prevent people from starving.

You will then have to deal with the business side of things. Who can take a card/ ration book? If its a card system, what happens to small businesses who are not set up for bank cards currently? What happens in remote rural areas, without the necessary infrastructure to support a card system? Who pays for this system? If you have a card reader you pay a fee for each transaction to your card reader provider, for its maintenance and processing. Will rationing exclude certain business types? What happens to them and their employees?

How do you police this system? What will be the punishment for abusing it? Who will enforce it? What law will this fall under? How long will it take to pass this through parliament or will you somehow need to find a way in which the executive can exercise emergency powers to implement this in a hurry? How will that be dealt with politically.

How do you intent to pay for the running of the system, when the food and drink industry in the cities collapses? How do.intend to deal with labour shortages in the countryside on the land, particularly with NIMBY objections to traffic problems or housing these 'migrant' labourers from the city?

What is your civil contingency plan for dealing with protests and riots arising from Brexit rationing?

How long do you think rationing will last? Will it require a state of emergency declaration? Will this potentially delay the next general election?

Oh and btw this needs to be done, sorted and improved within a short time frame with an immovable deadline. Without a collapse in government.

GOOD LUCK.

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RedToothBrush · 26/10/2017 09:58

Brexit opportunities.

DH is one of the best programmers in the business. Not too many with the experience and skills he has. In the crazy post Brexit dystopia he will be pretty much able to name his price at the rate its going.

Or we might fuck off to Europe to avoid the civil unrest and turnip growing. Taking advantage of the plummeting pound by renting out our house here.

I hear Swedish firms are on a massive recruitment drive at the moment.

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RedToothBrush · 26/10/2017 10:02

Yeah about that....

Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'
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RedToothBrush · 26/10/2017 10:12

Alex Wickham @ Wikiguido
Momentum member to BBC "The smear campaign is disgraceful. Guido should be ashamed of himself. There’s no standards in journalism anymore"

Julia Hartley-Brewer @ JuliaHB1
Well, to be fair, Guido should be ashamed of himself. But for other reasons.

My irony detectors is currently taking reading rarely seen, and I'm finding myself agreeing with Hartley-Brewer.

Its 10am and the JFK files are due to drop later.

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woman11017 · 26/10/2017 10:25

to be fair, Guido should be ashamed of himself. But for other reasons.
That MSM are having a news agenda dictated by a person like Guido, is a disgrace.

To keep campaign Nazanin going until she is re united with her little girl (who was a baby when she was imprisoned) and husband, a Haiku for Nazanin campaign.

haikusfornazanin.wordpress.com

LurkingHusband · 26/10/2017 10:33

This "Simon Jenkins", is he a bit thick, or what ?

Not really sure what you can add under "Remainer" to say what we are for Hmm.

If I were "Simon Jenkins", and I wanted to preserve my integrity, I would be claiming my account had been hacked and someone was posting things that make me look like a complete bellend.

Peregrina · 26/10/2017 10:34

Supposing we do leave the EU. At what stage will the right wing idiots in the Tory Government stop being able to blame the EU for everything? I know that they still try to blame Labour for the state of the country's finances, but I don't think that washes much with the public anymore, the story being that they have had 7 years to start to put things right, and haven't done so.

What I would categorically say though, is that Gove, Johnson, Redwood, IDS and the whole sorry crowd won't be around - they or their money will be nicely tied up in some offshore tax haven. May will have retired from politics, but might turn up in the Lords (perish the thought.)

woman11017 · 26/10/2017 10:38

Smoking pencils and leaver bots:
www.byline.com/column/67/article/1906

woman11017 · 26/10/2017 10:42

David Green's challenge to legality of DUP deal goes to court.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/26/tory-dup-1bn-deal-crowdfunded-challenge-reaches-high-court

NinonDeLenclos · 26/10/2017 10:43

At what stage will the right wing idiots in the Tory Government stop being able to blame the EU for everything?

The EU will always be blamed - because they punished us and gave us a bad deal.

My question is how long before it's generally accepted the whole thing is a disaster? 10 or 20 years?

NinonDeLenclos · 26/10/2017 10:47

The EU will be to blame for every ill that befalls us until we have a leader with the strength to change the narrative.

The fallout will break the Tories and then it will break Labour and then we will see a new political landscape emerge.

NinonDeLenclos · 26/10/2017 10:47

And no doubt a ban on referendums...

RedToothBrush · 26/10/2017 10:58

If I were "Simon Jenkins", and I wanted to preserve my integrity, I would be claiming my account had been hacked and someone was posting things that make me look like a complete bellend.

He would have to have a certain level of self awareness of his own stupidity for that.

We may have to open nominations for a Westministenders Award Ceremony this Christmas. So far I think the categories include:

The Dunning Kruger Award: For the person least aware of their own stupidity.
The Invertebrate Award: For the leading candidate without a spine. The Trump Award: For the spouting the Best Bullshit.
The Irony is Dead Award: For services to Comedy.
The Cockroach of the Year Award: For the politician who the worst conduct in public standards, but still somehow survives
The Hot Air Award: For the person who has given the best Brexit Speech.

Lots of competition for winners. Plenty of potential for other categories.

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RedToothBrush · 26/10/2017 11:00

Sam Coates Times‏*@SamCoatesTimes*

Warning: the Institute for Fiscal Studies know you are underreporting your tax on your self assessment form

Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'
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LurkingHusband · 26/10/2017 11:12

Warning: the Institute for Fiscal Studies know you are underreporting your tax on your self assessment form

but politically better to demonise and then harass and eliminate the disabled and vulnerable.

woman11017 · 26/10/2017 11:16

Law graduate versus Nigel Farage on LBC show.
Well worth watching:

twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/923431188450238465

@Femi_Sorry
MEP @Nigel_Farage was directly elected, has the power to fully amend or reject any law the Commission proposes YET calls EU law undemocratic

Also, interesting 'discussion' on trade deals.

IamEarthymama · 26/10/2017 11:16

I am just posting to add this thread to my I’m On in order to follow your wise words
Thank you all for your research and comments
I am very very scared at the moment

Peregrina · 26/10/2017 11:18

The fallout will break the Tories and then it will break Labour and then we will see a new political landscape emerge.

I would like to see that happening.

Peregrina · 26/10/2017 11:21

Warning: the Institute for Fiscal Studies know you are underreporting your tax on your self assessment form

But even then HMRC tend to go for the smaller business, instead of really hammering the multi-national firms shunting money around to avoid tax.

RedToothBrush · 26/10/2017 11:25

Michael Stothard‏ @MStothard
Unconfirmed reports that Puigdemont has dissolved Catalan Parliament and will make a statement shortly. @FT

Checks time.
Just before 11.30am.

Today's going to be a day to bury bad news.

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LurkingHusband · 26/10/2017 11:31

I see the Daily Mail is in full on apoplexy mode about "Remainer Universities".

woman11017 · 26/10/2017 11:36

'JFK conspiracy' and another 'populist' revolt in EU country.

Look there's a squirrel.

I've never known ignorance, prejudice and foolishness to have been so dangerous.

@JohnRentoul
EU Withdrawal Bill to come back to the House of Commons on 14 Nov: Andrea Leadsom announces

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