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Brexit

Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'

979 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/10/2017 18:09

Phil Hammond called the EU the enemy. Then retracted it. A classic political move, to pitch to one group and then say you didn't mean it after all.

This is the UK's negotiation strategy. Because the negotiation isn't really with the EU. Its the ongoing debate over the what leaving the EU actually means since it wasn't officially defined prior to the referendum and has been left to politicians to say its one thing to persuade people to support them and then decided no that's not really what they meant after all.

The whole thing makes it impossible for the EU to respond to us, because we don't appear to know what we want.

The EU have been explicit in their position. So things they can not do because of the limitations of trade rules and EU law. Its possible work arounds could be possible for some things - but certainly not all which too many Brexiteers fail to acknowledge.

And then there is the a50 deadline which is like a snake coiled around May's neck slowly strangling her. A self imposed screwing of our negotiating position. One that kills off our Brexit options and ups the stakes into a brinkmanship battle - not with the EU but between the hardlines and the sane. Its not even about remaining, though that option might well end up being the only option left on the table through our own folly, rather than out of EU malice.

The longer we take to work out what we want the higher the stake become and the more we destroy the foundations of our economy in the meantime, even if we do stay in.

We have only just noticed that we've lost money worth 25% of our GDP and we have no net assets anymore, when in early 2016 we had significant assets. Project Fear they said was wrong. Well was it?

We are flat broke as a nation.

Then there is the Great Repel Bill. The Bill was supposed to be in the Commons this week. It was delayed a week due to the sheer number of amendments. There are nearly a dozen with enough Tory rebels to make them stick. Including one for parliament to have a meaningful vote on what option we take - including no deal. If parliament rejected this, we would be left in a situation where we sure as hell better hope a50 is reversible or we could end up unlawfully leave the EU by accident!

And the Lords could be fun for the Repel Bill. The Labour whip has vowed to examine every amendment properly even if the commons don't. And they are free and within their rights to do so.

Still May could exit stage left. Or left with egg all over her face as she has to suck up to the 'enemy' for being such a tool for the last 18months, because she hasn't made progress on the negotiations that really matter. The Tory party ones.

Whichever way you cut it, you can be sure on only one thing: it will go to the wire for both. And possibly beyond with an eleventh hour extension to prevent chaos.

There are hints that the public mood might be changing. Not fast enough. Yet. Interest rates? A break in the triple lock? Phil's budget sure will be interesting. Especially as Brexiteers want money to prepare and protect us from a no deal scenario which they also tell us will be just fine and won't be a problem. Bye Bye NHS, don't get flu this winter. As a note once infamously said: 'There's no many left'.

We are Greece. Only worse. And out of pressure and deadlines we alone created. We just haven't realised it. Yet.

And if this doesn't make you cringe and brace yourself in horror:

Danny Kemp‏ @dannyctkemp
May wants to take the floor at EU summit dinner on Thursday to explain Brexit policy to fellow leaders, senior official says

Just remember her party speech and think: What could possibly go wrong...

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Thread gallery
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LurkingHusband · 25/10/2017 16:09

LH please tell me that's a piss take

Er, no. It's the Brave New World, doncha'know ?

Badders08 · 25/10/2017 16:27

😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮

LurkingHusband · 25/10/2017 16:30

Look forward to legislation (or a Statutory Instrument) which removes the need for DBS checks when proving CareBnB (as I suggest we call it - and it it takes off, you read it here first).

Badders08 · 25/10/2017 16:30

😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2017 16:51

Alberto Nardelli‏*@AlbertoNardelli*
^DExEU clarifies: MPs will get a vote on Brexit deal.
Still unclear: Barnier timetable is for exit deal, Davis spoke about trade deal too^

Hashi, I know one person who stood for local election and spent HOURS scouring the internet to check that nothing was easily findable and could be linked back to him. (EU data protection laws actually allow you to remove yourself from internet searches. Having a unique name like Jared O'Mara is a disadvantage in this respect. Especially if you post under the name 'Jared'.) They didn't think there was much that might be an issue but they took the time to check. They are a similar age to O'Mara.

They thought about what their online presence was and how that might be a problem. They had to sign something to stay they hadn't got something in their past that could bring the party into disrepute. O'Mara doesn't really seem to have considered this.

But I do think its worth pointing out the particular problems with the O'Mara case. When you look closely at him, he's a very good example of an idiot and someone who really should have known better even in his youth.

O'Mara case is a long term party activist.

He apparently said he wanted to be an MP age 14. He joined the Labour Party aged 17.

It should be stressed that as soon as you sign on as a party member, you have a certain responsibility. Your age is not an excuse to behaving like a prick which is contrary to party values and its ambition to promote. That responsibility doesn't just start the day you become MP.

He thought saying and doing things was compatible with his long term ambition. Its like a young person who wants to be a lawyer who makes a habit of hanging out with people who are doing drug deals.

He was living a high risk lifestyle given his ambition.

Plus this:
I worked as Press, Parliamentary and Campaigns Officer for a national disability rights charity. I have a 1st class honours degree from Staffordshire University in Journalism

(You can image my thoughts on that one)

Pleading innocence or claiming to be a changed man, doesn't really help him. It just makes him look like he had really poor judgment that you should expect even from a young man, because of that ambition.

It shows a rather shallow commitment to what he might be expected to believe as a party member.

Its completely different from someone who say for example comes from a rough background, says and does some terrible stuff has a completely different career and isn't a long term member of a party who then takes a change in lifestyle to become an MP prompted by a certain event or change of belief.

O'Mara's creditials at every turn really do make him the absolutely last person to start being able to plead that he was naïve.

If anything I'm also willing to bet, he used his disability as something to hide behind whilst doing it, as its that much harder to criticise someone with a disability being a knob jockey, because of the idea that they must automatically have an additional understanding of what it is like to belong to a disadvantaged group. .

O'Mara almost ticks every box as to why he shouldn't have behaved like this, yet he did.

Ultimately that's his downfall and that's why sympathy should be pretty limited and he perhaps shouldn't be held up as someone who has been unfairly politically lynched purely on the basis of the world they grew up in and the age they are.

Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'
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RedToothBrush · 25/10/2017 16:51

Lurking, get the name trademarked now!

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LurkingHusband · 25/10/2017 16:55

Lurking, get the name trademarked now!

Unless someone here has been sneaky, www.carebnb.com is already taken ... however :

www.carebnb.healthcare is available for £53.26 Hmm

LurkingHusband · 25/10/2017 16:58

First reference to my real name is 1986, in an internet RFC document. Back then I did a lot of "hacking" so never used my real name, and knew not to.

Any trawl of my real name (which isn't common) doesn't throw up anything remotely dodgy. Although I was accused of doing something illegal in a US state by a (rather dim) co worker. They had googled my name, and not noticed that the results they found were for a different person.

My DS has a larger footprint than I.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2017 17:27

I am 'blessed' with a common name. A search in my real name produces a haystack plus I've always been careful. (A couple of weaknesses but good luck to you trying).

We didn't give DS this luxury. He will be taught from an early age, in the ways of the 'net by a security nerd and a media grad. Poor lad.

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RedToothBrush · 25/10/2017 17:39

Jessica Elgot‏*@jessicaelgot*

@PeoplesMomentum launching campaign to unseat @JacobReesMogg - majority of 10,000 in NE Somerset. Not usually fertile Labour ground...

Is it doable?

2017
Conservative 28,992
Labour 18,757
Liberal Democrats 4,461
Green 1,245
Independent 588

2015
Conservative 25,439
Labour 12,690
UKIP 6,150
Liberal Democrat 4,029
Green 2,802

2010
Conservative 21,130
Labour 16,216
Liberal Democrat 11,433
UKIP 1,754
Green 670

I'd argue that its more doable than it looks at first glance at the 2017 figures might suggest.

Estimated Leave vote: 51.6%

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RedToothBrush · 25/10/2017 17:47

Shoaib M Khan‏ @ShoaibMKhan
So @ukhomeoffice told client at 4.45pm today that she'd be removed on 9.45pm flight. She then had her phone switched off, so couldn't...

...contact her lawyers. Finally she was able to. Lawyers started to look into what could be done. Desperate to get something done in time...

But, she's now being removed at 8.45pm instead.

Seems was at 8.45pm all along, but Home Office (deliberately?) gave lawyers the wrong time.

Removal on a scheduled commercial flight. There is no 9.45pm flight. So obviously isn't a last-minute change or something. Was always 8.45!

So, she was removed. With no luggage and no money. To the capital city. Family in UK have arranged a flight to a city closer to relatives.

She has husband, father, brother & brother's family in the UK. They are British or settled here. Removed to a country where she has no home.

After eight years lawful residence in UK, she was removed with just the clothes she was wearing and her mobile phone. No money, no luggage.

Just found out she didn't just have her phone switched off; it was confiscated by Home Office staff and only returned to her at the airport.

This is barbaric.

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Peregrina · 25/10/2017 17:48

Hence, leaking risks jail

Easy for me to say, but my late father as a Quaker and a CO during the war was quite prepared to risk jail. Many of his friends were imprisoned. Rather to his annoyance I feel, he was given an unconditional discharge.

Poll tax demonstrators were also prepared to risk a prison sentence.

BiglyBadgers · 25/10/2017 18:02

I have a very unusual name, but have always been obsessively careful about putting anything even a smidge controversial or unprofessional in my real name out there (social anxiety can have it's up side it seems). Of course I was helped a lot by the fact that social media and smart phones weren't around in my teens. Heaven knows what you would find it it had been.

Interestingly at uni there has been a lot of warnings and talk about appropriate social media use during lecturers and seminars. As it's nursing, students have to be really careful and have been thrown off the course for tweeting the wrong things. It seems to me that schools and unis are finally starting to catch up and realise that the youth need to be taught how to manage their online presence.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2017 18:09

Michael Crick‏ @MichaelLCrick
Two snr Lab sources tell me O’Mara probably not interviewed by anyone when picked for Hallam, & Yorks office prob just chose him from CV

WOW.

Tom‏*@RealTomH*

Don’t they bother googling candidates

Jenny Harrison ‏*@HenJenny*

And yet the NEC was allowing the trawling of social media sites and expelling members who retweeted Caroline Lucas. #chickencoup #cominghometoroost

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Badders08 · 25/10/2017 18:17

I've put the fear of god into ds1 (14) wrt responsible online use
He has no social media presence at all
He will under duress text
😁
Ds2 (9) is far more interested in being online and loves YouTube videos of weird American people doing stupid things 😩

Peregrina · 25/10/2017 18:24

@PeoplesMomentum launching campaign to unseat @JacobReesMogg - majority of 10,000 in NE Somerset. Not usually fertile Labour ground...

Is it doable?

We in Oxford West and Abingdon were able to unseat Nicola Blackwood with her 9,582 majority. It did help that the Green candidate stepped aside. Green support has fluctuated but since 2000 has always been 1000+, and Layla Moran's majority was 816.

So yes, if the other candidates are prepared to step aside or put up paper candidates only then it's doable.

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 25/10/2017 18:27

O'Mara's expulsion seems fair given that this is not simply a matter of juvenile twaddle (which would rule out almost anyone as a candidate by now) and appears to be ongoing... In general though we should remain open to the idea that people might grow up. People seem to be OK about the fact that ex-Bullingdonians no longer go smashing up restaurants for giggles, so this shouldn't be impossible.

There seem to be twats across the whole political spectrum, though, so I'm not sure why this is being spun as a specifically left-wing thing. Unless one is just prejudiced against the left, of course.

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 25/10/2017 18:32

Interestingly at uni there has been a lot of warnings and talk about appropriate social media use during lecturers and seminars. As it's nursing, students have to be really careful and have been thrown off the course for tweeting the wrong things. It seems to me that schools and unis are finally starting to catch up and realise that the youth need to be taught how to manage their online presence.

Unfortunately parents seem to be way behind. The amount of stuff I see parents posting about their kids on social media, oblivious to the idea that these five year olds will one day be 18 and might not want all this stuff following them around...

woman11017 · 25/10/2017 18:36

We in Oxford West and Abingdon were able to unseat Nicola Blackwood with her 9,582 majority.
Congratulations Peregrina one of your team ( a gentleman, whose name I didn't catch) was at the conference yesterday, very interesting and admirable how you all did it. Your lib dem team should be running courses on how to do this to hundreds of local remain activists.

LapdanceShoeshine · 25/10/2017 18:53

I’ve come a bit late to the Jared O’Mara thing. I didn’t much take to him when he first landed at Westminster, & immediately started banging on about disabled facilities - “forced to miss Commons debates because he has nowhere to sit” & no accessible hotels closer than Hammersmith (really???)

From the bits I first heard of his unpleasant internet behaviour 13 years ago I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt because I have 2 DSs in their 20s who say some pretty dubious things sometimes & I know they don’t mean them. (I wish they wouldn’t & I tell them so but they take no notice Hmm)

However - today I came across a blog post & an open letter to him from a woman who was there the night he insulted Sophie Evans, & having read both I am now convinced that he really is a nasty, misogynistic little prick & should be sacked altogether.

blog post

open letter

[[https://mobile.twitter.com/harlequinpub?lang=en

Her twitter feed is also worth a look]]

HashiAsLarry · 25/10/2017 19:04

There seem to be twats across the whole political spectrum, though, so I'm not sure why this is being spun as a specifically left-wing thing. Unless one is just prejudiced against the left, of course.

I'm not sure its solely a left thing though, more anyone not right. Its ok for Tories/ukip/etc to act like this, but centre through to left are meant to be principled or some crap. That's not my view btw, but seems to be some odd concensus.

woman11017 · 25/10/2017 19:13

but centre through to left are meant to be principled or some crap.
Yep

Mightybanhammer · 25/10/2017 19:14

Going back to the discussion this morning about senior the civil servant 'heading up the WTO taskforce' , jdd who comments on Richard North's blog.

I entirely agree with Irene - the person is clearly very well informed indeed, but I cannot understand how anyone in such a sensitive and senior post would commit such informative indiscrétions on social media. In most circumstances and in most departments In my opinion this would be a serious breach of the Civil Service Code.

It's all very rum , especially recent comments from them saying they were 'authorised' to comment on social media.

What was said about police questioning? I missed that.

Needless to say I find the North blog and JDD's comments essential reading. Just all a bit strange.

Re ration books bigchoc being printed at the Royal Mint - that makes no sense as the Royal Mint produces coins at its plant in Wales. No printing involved. Bank notes are printed for the Bank of England at the printing works in Debden, Essex, by De LaRue, under contract. Other country's currencies are printed there too.

Did JDD definitely make that claim about the Royal Mint?

IrenetheQuaint · 25/10/2017 19:32

No, JDD said he thought the ration books were printed in Cheltenham or something like that.

I agree with whoever said above that the facts Richard North uses in his blog seem to be pretty accurate; but he hasn't repeated JDD's wilder claims in his blog, as far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't read everything on it by a long chalk).

"In most circumstances and in most departments In my opinion this would be a serious breach of the Civil Service Code." YY - and if he's working at DExEu on the most important and controversial issue the civil service has faced in generations then even more so.

Mightybanhammer · 25/10/2017 19:46

Irene - my thoughts exactly.
Generally though the comments made by JDD, apart from the ration books business - seem to be broadly what one might expect of a senior official in DexEu - Apart of course, from the fact JDD is saying them at all.

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